1 Nov, 2022

Pete Cohen 0:01
Happy, beautiful, amazing day. It's Pete Cohen. It's the Future Self Podcast. today's podcast is called your Future Self What Do You Think, Feel and Do and I've got two guests in the studio. I will see you after and our guests the theme tune

Pete Cohen 1:36
Well, there's some there's a theme to that. One of my guests in the room knows only too well. Dr. Wright. Good afternoon. How are you?

Dr. Wright 1:43
I'm well my friends. Really good to see you for the first time for the first time

Pete Cohen 1:47
even though we've been working together for quite a while. And we've got Mr. For him in the house as well. And why don't we start with Dr. Ray. Tell us tell us who you are and where are you right now?

Dr. Wright 2:01
Your home?

Pete Cohen 2:02
Yeah. And we've never actually we've been working together but as of like, two hours ago, we'd never actually physically met.

Dr. Wright 2:10
None. So technology is a wonderful thing. So you can establish authentic relationships, but it's still great to see someone in person.

Pete Cohen 2:18
Yeah. And tell us about what if someone asks you what do you do? What's your kind of sphere around? That

Dr. Wright 2:24
is a great question. The short answer is I just work with people, helping them to understand who they are and what their value is and who they're called to serve in this

Pete Cohen 2:33
world. Where you've massively helped me in the last Are you aware of how much you've helped me apart from the theme the theme to which, obviously, what's the story behind this theme show?

Dr. Wright 2:45
So it's one of the it's one of the tracks in the catalog with an artist I've managed and he's been involved in on our journey together. Five of them are ones that he's vocalized, and they'll be tracks that people know but that's for another time but when you were talking about what you wanted to do I couldn't believe the way in which a sudden, he'd written and I co wrote with him actually fitted like a hand in a glove for your thinking. So you are the first person to hear that song and then make it available to the world so who knows where that's gonna go?

Pete Cohen 3:15
Well, the podcast is already found itself you know, performing really well all over the world, the Future Self Podcast, which is kind of like what we're going to be talking about. We've got Mr. Paul HERC him in the hospital. Paul, tell us a little bit who's Paul Hawken.

Paul Hawken 3:28
First of all pleased to be here. Pete. Thanks for the invitation. I actually didn't realize that you two have never met before. I know that you guys work together. A lot. But I didn't know that this was the first time you were meeting. So interesting to be with you both have obviously got to know you re on clubhouse and met you a couple of weeks ago in London. And Pierre friendship goes back 18 years when we worked at the golf coalition together there as for me the work I do. It's around consciousness. It's around becoming conscious of all parts of ourself. And I regard myself as a spiritual teacher, but also regard myself as somebody who walks his talk and looks at all aspects of myself as well. So, you know, my whole message is about embracing our humaneness from the Light of Consciousness getting to know more parts of ourself from a place of truth.

Pete Cohen 4:27
So when you say that I'm immediately thinking how many parts are there of ourselves, but perhaps we can come back to that, in turn in terms of the title of this podcast and talking about the future? How old are we collectively we are 150 are sort of 158 606 160 162 I have no we're not. I think I'm 52 You're 55 Five and you're 54 were 161. We're 161. Between us says this is a an age where I think for a lot of people. They're starting to think it's all right one way and it's time to kind of think about retiring. I want to talk to you about the future. How do you have what's your relationship to the future? Doctor,

Dr. Wright 5:09
right? It's a great question. To a certain extent, the future is unknown, but we do have some contribution to the future and our futures can either be completely random, or we can do the best we can to start to form and craft and shape the thing to our life. I don't believe we can explicitly make things happen exactly at the points we want. But I do think we can start to see our garden grow a particular way. So whatever seeds we plant our garden, at some stage given the right season, we'll see them grow. Yeah, but if we don't do that, and it's arbitrary, then whatever is out and your garden whatever comes in the wind the seeds from weeds by the air, then you see a garden and some people talk about mindset around the attentiveness of a garden. So I think my future self is as my agent stages, what do I want to plant and I might patient and graceful enough to allow it to grow with confidence. Knowing that I don't know when it's gonna start to bear fruit.

Pete Cohen 6:14
That's a mic drop moment right? What about you, Paul, your relationships in the future?

Paul Hawken 6:20
Well, first of all, I think you know, just this thing about the ages that we're all that and I think when we get into mid 50s, or in our 50s, especially if we've done the work on ourselves, then I think this time of life is one where I think we can truly step into the fullness of ourselves at this age. I really did because I feel like we've done a lot of work on ourselves to be very clear about who we are, where we're at, and what we want to do. So in terms of you know where I'm heading and what I'm doing, you know, I just feel that I want to be involved with people who are interested in healing. They're interested in becoming conscious becoming self aware, and supporting that work on for others and on myself as well.

Pete Cohen 7:09
So you've obviously both of you've heard me speak quite a lot, specifically about the future and our relationship to it, how we see ourselves down the line that I remember, I still feel like I'm 15 1617 I remember who I was, and I remember at that time in my life, I was not interested at all in next year, or the year after that all I was interested in was what we're doing tonight. What we're doing at the weekend. Where's the next holiday? That was it. At what point in your lives do you think the do you start getting out with is that something you relate to in terms of being in that sort of space and then starting to say hang on this? There's more to life than this?

Dr. Wright 7:51
I think Paul raises a great point consciousness. So I think going back if we amalgamate the garden analogy I created and talked about earlier, and consciousness is being self aware. And if you're aware of self, you're going to start to be a little bit more reflective CTIP what happened when it happened? But as I've discussed with you and Paul, you become reflexive, X IV, which is how did you feel at those times? So I know for myself when I got married when I had children. When there were challenges and traumas in my life. I can now reflect on those and with I suppose, deliberateness intentionality I can say okay, what did I learn from that? How did that shape who I am? That's uncomfortable. So let me just put that, that isn't some easy let's walk in the park and skip and hold hands. It's an uncommon journey. But if you make that commitment, it's really important to make that commitment. So that's what I would say on it. It's my life now. And us three because you guys have known each other a long time. And when I met Paul in your room, I knew there was a connection. So although we're seeing each other in person, and we have to navigate around that because it's like, you're gonna have to look at my ugly face and I haven't got a stoic, singular face now on Avatar. It's me in person. Yeah. But the reality is, we've got a heart connection. And I'm hoping that takes precedent over the way we look.

Pete Cohen 9:24
Yeah, absolutely. There's nothing better than meeting and being each other in person. But I think one of the things you've really helped me do is you've made me stop and look at self and look at what I was saying and what I was doing. And you probably saw something in me that I didn't really pay too much to always pay attention to, but I wasn't as aware as I as I could be as calling myself. You know, the People's coach in what is it that you saw in me? That made you think Hang on a second, you need to stop here. You need to think about what you're doing because you really have an opportunity to impact the world.

Dr. Wright 10:03
So we're all in the same space with this. The first thing I would say is, I saw willingness for you to look across the whole history, your life and and listen to other viewpoints. So I don't have a right viewpoint. It's greater than anyone else's. But when you and anyone in the audience when you're open to listening to other viewpoints, because we all have a blind self psychology called the Johari Window, but one of those is the Hidden Self. So if you look at that, logically, even in our future self, there's a hidden part of what we don't see perhaps of ourselves, who are others that are close to us can speak into it. So when I came into your room, you've got this great levels of empathy and love and understanding for people. And people kept coming up when I thought about you, but when I spoke to you, you were thinking corporate, and you kept on mentioning the word corporate performance, and I was thinking, but that's not what you deliver. So there was a gap between what you thought you had to be and what you actually were from my perspective. So again, my perspective is not right. It was just an observation. And you've been gracious enough to listen to that guy. That's interesting. And then even today, you said, this has been really helpful to me. And that's how we grow with each other. Everything we hear from others doesn't necessarily make us feel good about ourselves. But if you're comfortable about hearing different perspectives, you can grow from that bad or indifferent. Yeah, that's what I would say. Yep.

Paul Hawken 11:30
I'd like to come in on that.

Pete Cohen 11:32
Come on in. Come on in for that the waters lovely.

Paul Hawken 11:35
Well, I think one of the things about real friendships and about conscious friendships is that we are able to have difficult challenging conversations with each other. Because what we want for each other is our highest potential. And if we see people who are close to us who we've all got blind spots, right? If we see people close to us who are not aware of their blind spots, and we're able to have open authentic conversations around that, then I think that's a very beautiful thing. And something that you said Ray was about having this heart connection. And I think of Pete use, you mentioned about really stopping so there were two things there is about stopping, meaning. Just take a complete, completely fresh look at our lives, taking complete stop and really getting connection with our heart and find out what we're called to on the deepest level, what is what is really calling us and which people would we want to be around who are going to support that growth and that development within us. So for me, these things are so important.

Pete Cohen 12:57
Yeah, yeah. It's fascinating, especially when you start going into that space. I'm always curious is like your put yourself in a space where information is just coming to you. Like you're not thinking about what you're saying is that this is coming to me and I'm saying what's coming through is that,

Paul Hawken 13:17
that for me, is when you know I take the I take the chance or the opportunity to to speak from my being to speak from what I regard as my spiritual center. And when I speak from that place, some people can hear it, some people can't hear it, but I know that there's something very honest and very authentic and very real. And I also know that it's coming from an unconditioned place. So that it's not marred with my own conditioning from my own life, it's coming from a deeper place within me.

Pete Cohen 13:57
Yeah, I really appreciate when you speak that way. Because, obviously with this podcast being six years old, and we're actually live also on clubhouse, but not I've seen how a lot of people have embraced your truth when we speak our truth. And I'm curious as to why you think people struggle to kind of be open and honest and to speak the and when we say speak your truth. What does that mean to you? This is very philosophical poker where this is not being planned out. I'm just curious when you say, be yourself, speak your truth. What does that mean?

Dr. Wright 14:33
What if I can just go just before that because we're talking about stillness and stopping and somebody came up last week. When you truly listen, the same letters that form the word Listen, are the same words that span out silence. So one of the reasons why I believe we struggled to listening to others, is we're not silent. So if we're listening to someone, but we've gotten noise going on, and we haven't been able to abate that noise to a level where we can hear the frequency of someone speaking to us, we basically are listening to answer because we've already pre programmed we're on default mode. So one of the things the hardest journey for me personally is to say, am I listening to everything that was said? So Paul, and I were having a discussion earlier about some of the clients I work with, and he said to me, how do you feel about that? When he's talking about some of the help and assistance I've given to people? And it made me I was listening to him to assignment and it was like, such a great question. And I had stopped thinking, that's what real good conversation is about. If I was pre programmed to go, you're fine, move on. But it made me think about it. So the thing I would contribute is when you're truly listening, you are silent. You're not driven by your own bias. You're listening to another person's perspective.

Pete Cohen 15:58
So do you both think of curious about are you listening to a voice that's guiding? Like, are you listening to a voice I would like it to my future self is talking to me for years. I've been to listen, I kind of listened a bit. But I was listening to another narrative another what some people might call another self that was just

Dr. Wright 16:21
don't Can I just jump back in? Yeah, jumping. jump away. I'd love to hear Paul's questions. I think our default is that when we think about our future, we're using everything in our past to shape what we think our future and that restricts the pure freedom, that sort of be spiritually insightful, and the stillness that comes from silence because if you're not silent, you're basically listening to the noise of your past.

Pete Cohen 16:47
That's a mic drop moment there tool for you.

Paul Hawken 16:50
Well, I totally resonate, totally resonate with it, and especially the point that you've just made Ray about just really being in tune with ourself, so that when we are listening to others, there's a part of ourselves which is connected to our deeper self. And there's also a part of ourselves that is that is listening to what the other person is saying. So that we're not abandoning ourself inside the listening. And I think this is something that is very good for anybody who works with people, therapists, healers, teachers, coaches, that they don't become codependent. They don't give away their own power to be with others. They stay in their own power, and actively listen. And for me, that place that I'm listening from now, for example, is the same place that I'm speaking from now. And it's not a pre ordained place is a place that is coming out freshly it's not planned. It's not programmed, it's not scripted. It's completely natural. Yeah.

Dr. Wright 17:52
Great. Well, I mean, you started off about your journey. And the incredible journey, an incredibly challenging journey. My aim with with Hannah and that is good points that bring you into the conversation about future self and when the future from the words of others is or has the potential to overthrown you encourage about your future self.

Pete Cohen 18:23
Well, it's fascinating because with Hannah and my wife I for so long, when they when it first happened, which was first diagnosed I it was fear that was pushing me further not to die, but also believing that there was there was a solution. And now 11 years on when it kind of happened again, it it's the closest thing I've ever experienced to a miracle. It's hard to explain, but just seeing like things happening. Were you thinking this is really happening. This is unfolding in front of me she's defying all of the the odds what we've been told what happens? It's like, well, that's not happening. There's something else happening here. And this doesn't happen in terms of what other people say. And it's it really has woken me up more than ever to what actually is possible for all of us. You know, and Hannah doesn't really realize this. I don't think she does. On one level that the impact she's having on people. As she goes through this journey with me and we share the journey we share the story. I think there's a lot of people around the world that are waking up to it doesn't have to be the way that it is I could but what you said and I think what you both kind of really represent this. You don't have to be your past. You can be so much more than that. Can I just throw that back to you in terms of why? Why do you think that we hold on to our past so much and why do you think it's hard for us to let go? That's a big question. Yeah,

Paul Hawken 20:07
the question that we were speaking at the dinner table before and one of the things that is clear to me is that unless there's some kind of intervention it's very hard to break our programming and I conditioning. Because I programming and conditioning is hardwired into us from such a young age. That program and conditioning for a while, carries on it works, it works, it works and to a certain point where it no longer works. And a lot of people they want to get out of that programming and conditioning, but they don't know how to do it. So for me, there needs to be some kind of intervention. And for me the intervention comes from a kind of a higher power either a belief or faith or some kind of deep connection with with another part of ourselves which has been unconditioned, then I think it's possible for us to break our conditioning to break the narratives that we've been programmed with and we're able to transcend those and become more of our true potential. But if we if we don't, if we don't break out of that, it's almost like we can't do other than keep on creating the same thing over and over again. And I think there's a quote that you use to use Pete a lot of the time America golf college about, you know, a problem can't be solved on the same level. It was creative. Yeah. And I think there's some element of truth in that with our own conditioning. You know, some people myself, all of us, I think, on some level, create the same things over and over and over again until there's an intervention, which helps us go beyond their conditioning.

Pete Cohen 21:59
Yeah, it's powerful, right? Because

Dr. Wright 22:04
I was gonna say just, I like new Monix and acronyms, and I've always used a an ABCD, which is, most of us by default, what we acknowledge by default, we believe, and I think part of our higher thinking is acknowledging everything that goes into your mind. You don't have to believe that's, that is a deliberate discipline. So what you so acknowledging this is a default, I see we there's acknowledging going on, we've got believing, and we've got conditioning, and then the D is doing and that's the habit cycle. So to break the habit is to not try and stop managing the source is to just look at what you're doing. And then acknowledge what you're doing. And the moment you acknowledge what you're doing, you're then gonna go to I believe that politically something different, and that's the new VISTA. That's the new horizon is I actually don't have to believe everything I acknowledge. And that's where earlier traumas unfortunately, sometimes from parents or other traumas, we believe we acknowledge something, someone says something to us, they bully us, they abuse us. And then we believe that we're somehow part of that narrative, and it conditions ourselves to expect that. So that's why if you look at the research, I'm sorry, I don't wish to trigger anyone here but if you look at abuse of work quite a few clients with sexual use, if you look at sexual abuse, it conditions people and people, some people find it strange that people that have been exposed to that abuse, end up having some relationship with that abuse played out in their life going forward, because they've acknowledged it, but more importantly, they believed, and I would say to anyone, in this podcast, challenge what you acknowledge, because you don't have to believe everything, and if that makes sense.

Paul Hawken 23:51
Yeah, absolutely. I mean, the really interesting thing is as children, the only thing that we've got control about is our own beliefs and our own stories. That we tend to tell ourselves, right, and so if something happens to us over and over again as children, and the only thing we've got control of is our thoughts or our internal world, then we make conclusions about what this makes about what this means about us. You know, my I must be bad because this is happening. I must be somehow unlovable because this is happening. And as Ray saying, unless that narrative is challenged, then that that will continue to play itself out for the rest of our lives. So we believed a narrative as a child, and that narrative continues way into adulthood, even if the circumstances have completely changed from context,

Dr. Wright 24:45
to plot records play, same record is pain.

Pete Cohen 24:48
You know, it's

Dr. Wright 24:50
that's why I think it's so good to talk.

Pete Cohen 24:51
Which is obviously something that a lot of people find it hard to do just to. But when you come from the point of view of I'm more than my thoughts are more than my mind. I'm more than that. There's more to me than than this that you then can start to observe the experience of being yourself. But I want to take this forward. Let's imagine that we're all similar ages here. We've just met and our lives have ended, right and we're spirits right? We're spiritual beings right now. The life is what have we done? What have we left on this earth? Great. I'm happy to go first time to when my dad died. You know, I remember the funeral and it was fascinating because there was believe it was like 500 people and there were people can come into the crematorium. There were people queuing up outside and there was a theme to my dad's life and it was in the letters and the emails that my mom got. And I could see quite clearly that my dad had time. To people. He really did. I didn't actually see that at the time. I kind of saw it a bit but looking back now I see that that was one of his real gifts that he left behind, he left and for me when I've gone I definitely want to leave a trail of people just waking up and just looking at the world differently. And being enthusiastic about reinvention. Like Maslow said about you know, actualizing I don't know I wanted to ask you what that meant to you. And then the thing about then transcending that. What does it mean to realize that you've got some potential and I suppose that's what I want to do help people realize I can do that. And now I've done that I could do that. And then I've done that I could do that. I could just keep on experiencing I could keep on growing and contributing. I want to leave a world full of people that have just changed their paradigm and massively impacted the life of people. What about you? What are you gonna leave behind?

Paul Hawken 26:45
When I think we've all got gifts, every one of us has got gifts. And when those gifts are liberated from the ego, when they're liberated from the need to make it about us, then I think those gifts can come through us very purely. And so for me, if we were sitting up there, you know, wherever we were the three of us and we were having a chat and you saying what was your life about? I want my life to be about the fact that I've given myself to something greater than myself. Yeah, that that would be at what that manifest says and how that unfolds. Yeah, is not you don't

Pete Cohen 27:22
need it. It's not even that bothered. No,

Paul Hawken 27:25
all my quote unquote, job is, is to live in alignment with that moment to moment. And to trust that moment to moment and then something some other intelligence is playing itself out. Without an agenda. It's just, it's complete in and of itself.

Pete Cohen 27:41
So you know, that's his story. Apparently, King Arthur said to the knights, go to the fourth and find an entrance that no one's gone down and walk your own path. Is that you walking your own path is that this is my path. This is what I'm doing. It's like,

Paul Hawken 27:59
you know, something that happened to me when I was in my mid 30s is I got very ill, I came very close to dying. And something came through me which, at that point, it's saved. Me it saved me to a certain extent. And I decided from that point that I will give the rest of my life to that what however, that may unfold, whichever way that might go in. And so that is the the tunnel the path, the route that I've gone down, and it's meant that I've left jobs where I've been earning a lot more money or I've, you know, left things which on a material level would have been much better for me to have stayed in. But something I feel like there's another quality that comes through the deeper realization of ourself. And for me, I just feel my the purpose of my life is to just follow that embody that and surrender to that.

Pete Cohen 28:56
Robert, thank you for sharing that. What about you, Dr. Roe.

Dr. Wright 29:01
As you know, I'm anchored in a Christian faith. So for me, I was referenced that as my go to so, biblically, Thessalonians it says we're made up of spirit, soul and body, and that's not how kilter with any other major religion or philosophy. So when we die, we're a spiritual self. The essence of who we are is played out in our soul self. And I think in life, we're driven by the body, the tangible, the aesthetics. So going back to trauma, we forget often that everyone suffers trauma. So if you're let's imagine a beautiful person aesthetically gifted intellectually, you're the best athlete that's ever existed. There is actually a flaw to that because you operate in that and people are defining you that way. And you believe that you are on a spiritual level. True spirituality is being selfless. So none of those body matter. What does that say to a model? was sad to receive stuff

Pete Cohen 30:02
that's really tough or a millionaire or just got everything

Dr. Wright 30:05
Yes, someone listening now that is charged themselves on define themselves by their job, their status. Ultimately, our true nature is selfless. And when we become selfless, to Paul's point, we just want to give

Pete Cohen 30:17
that's one of the things I've observed, probably more than anything else is that when people are most fulfilled, is definitely when they're living a life of service and just giving and being curious and yeah, it's crazy what most of us have to get through. To get to that point of real life isn't that was Muhammad Ali? Yeah, the shortest poem in history. Me we is all about we it's everything is

Dr. Wright 30:41
back. And what I would say is look at all the richest people who ever set foot on this earth going back to King Solomon all reached a point where they recognize the best part of being self was to be selfless, and give things away. But if we look in a world which is driven largely by consumption, the world around us is in opposition to that

Pete Cohen 31:07
massively opposition. So is Andrew Carnegie who became the richest man in the world, spent the second half of his life giving all of his money away. And he actually died of a broken heart because the steel of the steel company that he sold was being made to make bombs for the First World War and he pleaded with the president of America not to go to war. But that's another story for another day. But I really liked that. Why do you think people are scared to kind of live that life if I'm just going to, I'm going to give I'm going to what can I do for you? What do you need and to be selfless? What is it about that way of apart from the fact that is complete opposition to how the world seems to work for most people? Why is that such a challenge Do you think to be questioned?

Dr. Wright 31:55
What Paul and I were speaking earlier, and I would say by whatever level we want to put it I use the term value as an entity we need value, or we are externally value orientated or internally. So if we're externally validated, it means it's our body is our status is the things that are seen. The higher and The Road Less Traveled is when you go inward, and none of those things matter and then you're internally defined. When someone's truly internally defined, it can be intimidating, because actually all the new normal markers for measurement and comparison they are

Pete Cohen 32:34
now who am I? I don't have any of that,

Paul Hawken 32:36
you know, Thanks, Ray. Great point because you know, I've done a lot of retreats in my life, have held retreats, been on retreats, and a lot of those retreats are in silence. And when we're when we're together in silence, you know, what anyone's got and what anyone's done and who anyway, it doesn't mean a thing, right? It doesn't mean the thing. The only thing that is of any value, to raise word or any of any significance is our internal world, basically, can we be with ourselves? Who are we without all of these other trappings? We've identified with a mate to make those to be our sense of self. If we leave all of those things like, who are we? And I think again, to come back to Ray's point, you know, I think Christ said inner poverty, outer wealth, or outer world or the other way around anyway, basically that we can gain the world and lose our soul. We thought that's what's happened to most right we can get we can get everything and still be empty within. So you know, again,

Pete Cohen 33:46
you could be the opposite as well. You could be have nothing but think everything is you need is outside of you. And again I remember saying to a taxi driver in took me from New York to New Jersey. I said, Tell me about the American dream. And it goes the American Dream is a F nightmare. Because you've got all these people that have got everything and not happy and then you've always people are striving for everything and don't have it and they feel like in lack, like everything they need is outside of themselves. Whereas look, you might you might think you need those things but I think Do you think that deep down what most people are craving is a need to accept themselves. Is it a need is it how would you describe that?

Paul Hawken 34:30
When it's the same thing which you're talking about? You're talking about a desire for wholeness, really, you're just it's just being expressed in quote unquote the wrong way I if I get x y and Zed Yeah, that will complete me. So the the desire or the you know, the wish to want to complete ourselves is a good one. It's just we're lacking in the wisdom about where that is. And that is to be found within and we also need a certain amount of things on the outside, right? You know, we need we need both. But if we are not developing healing, working on ourselves inwardly, then whatever we get outwardly will be less significant and it won't. It won't impact us for all or certainly not for very long.

Pete Cohen 35:16
So let me ask you, because when someone asks you what is done, I don't pass when someone asked me what I've done. And I tell them it's not significant to me, but I understand it has a place and I know it can get people's attention. Like if you tell someone I've done this, this and this, but it's done. I'm more interested in what I want to do. I'm just curious. That's why I ask the question, what do you what have you got and what do you want to do with it? And

Dr. Wright 35:41
so the worst questions for me on clubhouse is when people say, so tell us who you are. Yeah, because there aren't enough words or the right words. To say who I am, because there aren't words. Who I am is an inner feeling an essence. And I'd rather someone experienced me in conversation than me give her a stage tool, but in a world that wants to know what you value. And then you mentioned Maslow's Hierarchy of Needs earlier. And if you look at the five levels, the first four are outside eat food, obviously we need food, sustenance, shelter, then we need love, and we need status and belonging. That's what the world lives by this both those four levels, but the Fifth Level self actualization is inside out. And with a great resignation we've discussed this p with the pandemic, it slowed us down. And suppose that it forced us to go inward because there was no outside defining. We weren't in offices talking to each other. We weren't driving our cars looking forward. The roads are empty, and suddenly you were left in silence with yourself it has it broken something in society, and I feel horrible about the tragedy and loss of life through this journey. But I'm also very positive about the changes made. Now some people and it is an age demographic thing, and I'd love to discuss this with people in the audience later but there tends to be a trend I'm seeing that people are older. This is ingrained to Paul's point their lifelong routines, that why called their patterns and regularities where if you're young enough, it's like, Well, I live in a different world. They're more flexible. There's a bit like they say the younger can bend in the storm. And what we're seeing is a lot of breakages happening. Even amongst young people that were taught to be fixed. You go to school, get great qualifications and credentials, and this is your life is like a linear plan. But then your plan doesn't exist. It never existed. Yeah, now we've got evidence, it doesn't exist. And we're now hearing people saying, I want to be happy. I want work life balance. companies now have changed HR to be able and culture because they've recognized the most valuable asset they have other people and you're the people's coach. What you do is bring value to recognizing what really makes a company different. Yeah.

Paul Hawken 38:09
Thank you. You know, thanks for bringing that up, Ray. Because I think within any adversity, there is always the potential for a lot of growth. In fact, it almost only ever comes that way. You know, yeah. And with regard to the pandemic, in terms of what you're speaking about, so many people have questioned their lives. So many people have said, you know, we're not here forever, you know, what is my what does my life stand for? What do I want to give my time, effort and energy to and I think it has created a global shift from where we were to where we are now. The question is, now how do we kind of go forwards with that? Because I think we're coming into an almost like an unknown period. Now. Do we go back to how it was as we come in? Post pandemic, four has the impact of the pandemic being sufficient to change things

Dr. Wright 39:01
support? I'd love to comment on that. I've not been on clubhouse long. So I know you've written a book on this piece and please correct me for all the blast we're about to talk about that we're looking at his book, Michelle clubhouse cult culture. So what I wanted to say was that clubhouse was an evolution as I think it was, that was spawned from technologist who wanted to continue to speak to themselves in a very highly productive way. And then we've slipped into this audio platform. What I've noticed and I've only been in clubhouse since the late part of last year. Is that there's a law of diminishing return in terms of the people on clubhouse because those that went on initially, were all the people and I'm gonna be controversial here. They're all celebrities, employee base people. It was all about the sizzle, not the substance. What we've got now we are here we're not earning any money. We're not asking for any money. We're coming here because our heart is full of stuff that we just want to share. That to me is the new value proposition. But if someone is listening, thinking, how can I make $1 or pound? They've got the wrong thought because that's a body perspective. Not a selfless perspective.

Pete Cohen 40:11
What's that whole thing about how much value can I actually add to this conversation? What can I bring? What can I bring? What can I add? What value can I take from what you're giving? And this has been recorded? This is my podcast, but this is also live on clubhouse for those of you that don't know a clubhouse is it's a social media platform. It's an audio platform. And yeah, it's been really interesting. I was the first person to write a book about it. But the amount of people on the food it featured 35 people that were using the platform but the amount of people that have left, one of them passed away he was Alex Flynn, he I did a podcast with him. He's a man with Parkinson's disease. He wanted to put Parkinson's disease on top of Mount Everest. So I thought, Wow, what an incredible story I need to tell I need to help him get his story out. But it's really interesting how you go into something and you think, Well, I just see what I can take. Right and then when I can't take any more, I'll go somewhere else. And it's like, fair enough. If that's what you want to do. It's like, wow, what could we do with this? If we keep looking to add value?

Dr. Wright 41:15
That's the question. There's two thing questions I have. You can answer them in any order. How many people who chronicled in this book are still actively using it accrue percentage from your experience.

Pete Cohen 41:34
I'm looking now 45677 out of 35. Yep, let me want to isn't

Dr. Wright 41:45
this interesting? This was not planned. But seven or 35 is about 20% of the 8020 rule. So you know, when you think about the 8020 rule 20% of those that are unplugged as at the beginning when there was this promise of a new way of earning money from audio apps, 80% of gun, there's 20% that still believe in the value of clubhouse, and that's consistent with research. The other question I was gonna say is this podcast is going out to people all around the world. And we don't know how that's feeding, but it's going to be valuable. And tell us a little bit about where you are in the rankings and the reach because that to me, is wonderful. Not monetary value, but wonderful value because you're feeding people.

Pete Cohen 42:27
But it was six years from before this podcast is over six years old and every every week for six years, sometimes twice a week. I never did this to make money. I did this because I like to speak. As you probably well know. I like to share something in it to inspire people. But I also love to talk to people and I've interviewed some amazing people. It's just what is the point of living if you're not adding value to the life that you have? It's just such a fascinating conversation to have with people because I think a lot of people never really think about it. When When am I actually at my best and I've seen you. I've seen both of you your best. I've seen you just getting better at being your best because you're just you focus on every day. Speaking of truth, practicing your truth, this is me. And you're incredibly honest, I'm talking to you, Paul. We're so those of you that don't know, and I've seen how kind you've been to me, you know when I work with what happened with my wife and to same with you doctor right now. You know, it's just like, I'm here. If you need me, I'm here to help you. It's like, how can we all help each other? And I don't see the point of life. If there isn't what can we do? For each other? How can we help each other with this?

Paul Hawken 43:50
And I think in this idea of helping each other what are our gifts in terms of helping so P you'd have your gift which I guess you would say would you say it would be motivational type? Would it would

Pete Cohen 44:04
it? Yeah, I'd say it's giving people a different perspective of where they are. Right? And make them look at things differently and go ooh, and then give them some interventions and community of of like minded people.

Paul Hawken 44:18
Yeah, yeah, I'm ready. What would you say yours would be in terms of what you're the gift that you're able to help others with?

Dr. Wright 44:27
Again, a great question. I just don't think I'm qualified. So here's the interesting you to a qualified speak about me, because when you aren't P I think piece epicenter is I want to encourage people that they can be better tomorrow than they are today. That's it. No, concrete is not complicated. I just want people

Pete Cohen 44:47
to hear him say that because I agree it's I even find it quite hard to to put that into words. Because he's so good at what he does. He probably doesn't even know part of what he's doing. I think and the same way that you

Dr. Wright 45:02
and Paul, it's a great question, but it's a question that is so typical of the world we live in. What do you do? I mean, Simon Sinek talks about the why question circles, and he said the outer six, circle you meet people's What's your name? So it's the what? And then how did you get there? Well, I did this and I did that to the American dream. He said but no one talks about their why. And why. For me if you go inside why can only be and you say this all the time, Paul, is who you are. That's why I'm fascinated about and obsessed with who you are. Because if you know who you are you then know your why. And when you know you want you know who you call to serve.

Paul Hawken 45:41
That for me, you see I think this conversation which I hear happens all the time in clubhouse or elsewhere, this conversation can happen from ego or it can happen from actually what is what is the gift that I've been given. And I'm not sharing Lego I'm just sharing from well, this is what I feel is my is what I'm sharing. And I think there's two places are coming from one is self promotional. And one is just going well I feel like you know that I've got this and I want to serve people who are called into that. So for example, I love to meet people in a very intimate, honest, vulnerable, straightforward way. So I love when we can get past all of the other stuff and get down to okay what's really going on.

Dr. Wright 46:30
And what I love about that pool is that and you've articulated it earlier, you found yourself in vulnerability. Yeah, and you know, that's where discovery happens. So now, you don't want the BS of a conversation that is peripheral but superficial. There's no substance there.

Paul Hawken 46:47
I can have it, but I like it to go somewhere.

Pete Cohen 46:52
What is that that banter? I mean Venters it's such a crazy thing that I've seen that with so many professional teams and just making fun of each other but I like making fun of people but only because I love them, you know, so that you can see the funny side of of life and realize that we are powerful on our own. But when we come together in the spirit of love and kindness and we there's nothing that we couldn't do if we decided to come to imagine if we came together on a project and thought this is what we're doing. And you know, Dr. Ray, you've really helped me with a specific project that I wanted to go faster with it, but you kind of stopped me and said Hang on, hang on, hang on. This is what you're saying. Well, that's not what you're doing. I remember saying something to you about. Well, okay, you're the people's coach, but you've just said about this application. If people don't get it. Well, that's their problem. That's what I said and you're saying, Oh, look, you're the people's coach through you can't you can't say that because that's that's not authentic. And I think we need people that hold us accountable and people that kind of

Dr. Wright 47:57
speak when I said that you could have rejected. Yeah, but I knew

Pete Cohen 48:01
where you were coming from old enough now to know where people are coming from with whether that's a gift in

Paul Hawken 48:06
of itself. Yeah. And I think what you're both alluding to now is trust. You trusted Ray Ray Ray Ray felt comfortable enough to speak to you honestly and straightforwardly. And I think at the end of the day, the more that we trust each other, the more that we can have those sorts of conversations where we actually were speaking to each other from love, in fact, to not speak it out is an act of aggression that we have to speak it out because we want the best for that person. Yeah,

Pete Cohen 48:35
but that's a funny thing for a lot of people and I've been in those situations where I've been concerned about saying something like a friend of mine, he's got himself in a bit of a pickle. I haven't said something to him. But I'm going to base on the back of this because I want it to come out of love as opposed to

Dr. Wright 48:54
sort of biblically that talks about admonishing others, and that is predicated on a deep sense of love for someone. And if you love someone as yourself, when you see something they may not observe or because of their hidden stuff. If you're admonishing someone it's done with absolute humility and love and grace. That's reasonable.

Paul Hawken 49:14
I think I think it's so important again, about where it's coming from. Right. It's got to be coming from a good place, not a divided place. It's got to be coming from our highest self there.

Pete Cohen 49:25
I mean, we could definitely talk for hours. We could be here all night. Right? No alcohol, just water. It's pretty hot in here. But I want to kind of bring this to wrap this up, wrap up this podcast. When we were sitting outside before we talked about rebels, right and rebelling. And it's Jesus. I remember my I think I told you this story. My coach when he was alive. You look at the table outside. I was with him in China when I bought that table. And he let me buy. He didn't say Pete you live on a boat and you've just bought a table that weighs a ton what you do, but he cared enough for me to kind of make my own choices. In life. And I remember him once saying to me goes Pete, you're a lot like Jesus. And I went, What do you mean? And he said, Well, what do you know about Jesus? I said, Well, I know a fair bit because I went, I went to a Catholic school, but I was brought up as a Jew. So we used to hear the Old Testament, the New Testament. What do you remember about Jesus apart from the miracles? And we talked about this, he said, Jesus was a rebel. You know, he rebelled against what he was experiencing. And he thought, This is my this was his interpretation. Like I'm leaving this I'm going off to the desert because I want to spend a bit of time away from all of this just on my own. And he found himself and he rebelled against and I've seen myself but he said because I'm a rebel. I've always rebelled against conforming to what other people told me I should do you know, and I'm happy and uncomfortable rebelling with what we're seeing at the moment in the world. With the great resignation, it seems that more and more people are kind of rebelling. And I'm just wondering, what are your thoughts on that? Do you see yourself as a rebel?

Dr. Wright 51:16
Great, great question. I think, from a Christian point of view, the journey is, each and every day. Tronic become more Christ, like for those that are not Christ followers explicitly, then really, each and every day. You're trying to become selfless.

Pete Cohen 51:33
For me that means for me, that means better than me if I'm becoming more selfless, there's more about everybody else on this collective.

Dr. Wright 51:44
The more yourself this the more you serve others, the more you're actually serving yourself.

Pete Cohen 51:49
Yeah, definitely. Yeah, that's it, because that's when people think it's a bit strange, isn't it? I love it. I absolutely love it. Yeah. So would you say you're a rebel? Well,

Dr. Wright 51:58
I love a film called The Matrix. Yeah, we've talking about the first one. That's the only one and in true honesty, but there's a moment in that film which is so deeply spiritual, that you have this scenario with someone has a choice. They've recognized that something's not quite right in their life. And they've given the choice of two pills, and they can go back to what the majority of the world does and this like what we're talking about, and everyone at the moment, I think post pandemic is sitting there with two pills and that some people go out of its way back to normal so they don't want to take the red pill. They take the blue pill, let's go back to the blue. Yeah, but there are some people going well, there's enough discomfort and disruption in my life. I've got a choice to do something different and we've seen more entrepreneurs start up than ever before. We're seeing more females being empowered by their giftings and recognized they're not being conformed to the dictates of the social and psychological rules and traditions and regularities. So I see the matrix as a real paradigm. I'd love someone perhaps and we could do rework a scene from The Matrix, but it's in the context of wow,

Pete Cohen 53:09
I'm gonna go over that and just go through the film about just a short.

Dr. Wright 53:16
Yeah, it would be wonderful that would be because I want people to have the courage. I think this is what you're saying. You want people to have the courage to take the red pill and go inward? Yeah, because when he went inward, he discovered where he really was.

Pete Cohen 53:30
Yeah, it's going just it's not when you meditate, sorry to use popular culture, but now it's brilliant. It's brilliant. And you know, when you meditate, I often find that there's that resistance to it. But then we'll just go a little bit deeper that that to me is where That's where it's at. It's the fear of going to that place of this. It's hard to put it into words, but do you see yourself as a rebel pool?

Paul Hawken 53:55
I've definitely got a rebel in me and I think the work that I've done is to try to integrate that rebel, so it's not, yes, coming out in a dysfunctional way.

Pete Cohen 54:08
Yes, that's a great point. That's a fantastic point.

Paul Hawken 54:11
But to to speak also, more broadly to this thing about being a rebel. I think anybody who goes beyond their conditioning and discovers their true nature that by its by its very visible, is an act of rebellion. It is because why? Because then you're no longer controlled by the world and by the, the narrative of the world you've found yourself it can there be a greater act of rebellion then that I want

Dr. Wright 54:37
to throw in flow? What did your terms no one's got some people in a googly or whatever? You want to throw it in there? Correct. John, explain that. What

Pete Cohen 54:46
really is a one a boulder and a game of cricket balls and ball which really confuses the batsman?

Dr. Wright 54:54
Yeah. So this is you're gonna throw I'm gonna try to from what Paul said. We're not being rebels. We're going to the right place. Yeah. We are in a mind trance of deception that our normal regularities and conditionings is normal. So I think the reason why the three of us are drawn to being a rebel is is not a rebel. It's our true self.

Pete Cohen 55:19
Yeah, absolutely. So that our remember a friend of mine mentors and stuff, where it's observing the masses and kind of going in a different way that

Paul Hawken 55:27
there's there's a quote by Krishna Murthy that just came to me actually when he said it.

Pete Cohen 55:35
It's coming, it's coming. When it comes to

Paul Hawken 55:39
I want to hide it and I

Pete Cohen 55:40
don't want to come. I want to I want to thank you both of you for for being here. We could carry on this conversation literally for hours, and we will we will definitely do this again. In summary, it's really great to walk the path that I've decided to walk with the two of you and other people that are coming from a very similar place and that's the collectiveness of Posterous still writing down. It's got he's got it everyone. Ladies and gentlemen,

Paul Hawken 56:09
Krishna Murthy. He said it is no sign of sanity to be well adjusted to an insane world.

Pete Cohen 56:15
Absolutely. I thought it was a sick society, but it's the same thing like that. The sentiment is most definitely there. Any final words from now as opposed to the final words of your life? Thank you. We're not there yet.

Dr. Wright 56:32
I think the joy of taking a risk go into the states not knowing what I was doing. But following an instinct was the best thing I did in terms of self learning. And then the full circle is bringing me back here now, in a room with two people I didn't know in person, but I know you from your heart cell. So it's like I know you better than people I've seen every day for like 20 years perhaps. And that's the crazy thing I say to everyone. familiarities just seeing someone in the person in the body self is feeling the true nature of someone on the internal that means you can meet someone and know for a short time and think believe and know that you know them a lot longer. So I would say to anyone seek out those who help you become a better version of yourself tomorrow. And if you haven't encountered someone who may be toxic at this time, because I don't want anyone to just point someone out as being toxic. But someone who brings something out of you that's not right for you at the moment. Have the bravery courage to step back and pursue a future self. That is about you being a better self.

Pete Cohen 57:41
Yeah, I love that. I'm gonna listen to that again. What about you? Any final words?

Paul Hawken 57:48
Well, I just want to reiterate what you said right? Because I felt like being here with you guys. It's just felt a lot of love. Together the three of us just sharing speaking honestly. No Barriers up No, you know being careful just being real. So I felt a lot of love and I've really appreciate the connection that we've got.

Pete Cohen 58:05
Well guys, make sure that you reach out to us. Reach out to Paul in the in the show notes for the podcast. We'll put your contact details race contact details. I think that what was come out of this for me is again, there's that realization of a lot of people today I think are living a future they don't want but through that stopping and realizing that there's infinite amount of possibilities. You don't have to create that future. You could create a different one, that maybe when you you do leave this earth you could look back and go, Wow, that was great. You know, I really contributed I left something behind. I think that's part of the reason why that the New Zealand Rugby team are the most successful sporting team in history. The idea is whether you play one game or 100 games, when you finish playing for New Zealand, you left that place in a better place than when you started. And that's a great philosophy of life. I think what do you reckon?

Dr. Wright 59:06
Well, I think you started this about our ages and where we are 100

Pete Cohen 59:11
How old are we 60 160 161 years old often

Dr. Wright 59:14
in my journey with people and I'm thinking a dentist. I've worked with quite a few of them if you join a practice and people use different terms around the world, but you might join as an associate partner you know full partner, that as partners get older and the retire they will sell their list onto an associate. And I can think of a client I worked with on that. And he was young enough to see us strategically in the inheritance. So there may be some people in the audience or in inheritances. What can I draw from this? I believe that as we're speaking we're in that legacy mode. We what are we? We just want to give it out. We just don't you know, it's that paying it forward, giving it out. We don't know where it's gonna go. We don't know who's gonna respond to it. But being in a legacy mode means that you're sharing. You want to share you're not consuming just for yourself. Gain. You're sharing for community. And that is just the best play shared experience to me is the best and as we're speaking your dear wife speak to my dear Yeah, no, it's

Pete Cohen 1:00:15
amazing. I can hear them in the background and it's just an incredible gift. I think that's so great. For now, you can say that the friendship that has that's the thing you know, we come together and through us coming together, it creates this ripple

Dr. Wright 1:00:31
effect and I think we will all work together in the future there will be

Pete Cohen 1:00:37
guys thank you so much for listening to the Future Self Podcast. We will definitely be seeing you again very, very soon.