31 Oct, 2023

Pete Cohen (00:00.01)
So, we are live. Ray, good day to you.

 

Ray (00:07.702)

Hey Pete, how are you and how is Portugal?

 

Pete Cohen (00:10.626)

Portugal is amazing. As you well you know, but our listeners don't. I'm actually here and I've just finished speaking at a conference and I first spoke to this organization in 1997 in San Francisco and I'm here in Lisbon and I've never seen this. I've been to Lisbon but I've never seen this bridge. There's a bridge here which is right outside the hotel that is almost identical.

 

to the Golden Gate Bridge in San Francisco, which is where I spoke in 1997. So it was amazing. I'd love to share some of that with you, but what about your good self? How is Ray doing?

 

Ray (00:50.054)

I'm good. The sun is shining. It's autumnal, but it's got that nice little gentle bite in the air, but it's a beautiful day outside.

 

Pete Cohen (01:03.49)

Well, I'm chasing the sun. I'm gonna be in Portugal till Friday, and then I'm flying to Florence. I'm speaking at an event there on Saturday. Then I got home for a few weeks, and then I'm coming over to the US of A. And I'm coming to be with you for Thanksgiving, and I'm hoping it's a bit warmer than it's starting to turn in the UK. But Ray, over the last few weeks, we've been talking about...

 

gratitude and last week was the 500th episode of this podcast. This is now the 501st. And as we start a new season, a new chapter, I really just want you to know how much I appreciate the conversations that we have because the nature of this podcast has changed in terms of it's you and me, we tend to have some very deep philosophical conversations. Can you just tell our listeners from your point of view?

 

maybe this is the first podcast they've listened to, or maybe they've listened to it a few times, but just to remind people in terms of kind of what we're doing here, what's the point, what we would like people to get from our deep philosophical conversations.

 

Ray (02:10.45)

For sure. I think the origins of it Pete really emanate from the transition you're currently making from the loss of your dear wife and we decided to have chats and many people are fed back that they say it sounds like a kind of therapy or a counseling session but we're reviewing life when you get hit by a train and then every derivative from that.

 

most people can relate to having a challenge in their life. But such a significant challenge is yourself, particularly in the field you are, where you're driven to motivate and inspire and excite people. You've come to an important junction in your life because many people are watching you and thinking, well, what happens next?

 

And I've certainly very comfortable and made a commitment to working with you, and with you on a weekly basis, talking through the notion of stopping. But we've come through several iterations, as you said, and stopping, we're encouraging. And I think your heart is to encourage all people when they have the ability to do this is to stop, even though in your current state, you had no choice but to stop.

 

but you've also shared that you've also recognized times in your life where you had options to stop and you didn't. So that's where I think we are at the moment is this process of stopping. And then we were exploring why do we stop? And we've been talking about stopping, um, creates, and this is a paradox here. Stopping creates momentum and it creates momentum for change.

 

Pete Cohen (03:41.185)

Yeah.

 

Ray (03:53.734)

And sometimes you can see the things that may no longer be relevant to your life and It starts to percolate New insights, but when you're busy or as you have said busy being busy You can miss all the cues for the changes and then when they start to accumulate and these could be tiny little Micro nano changes, but when they accumulate you can end up in this

 

Pete Cohen (04:08.163)

You

 

Ray (04:20.966)

overwhelming state of being driven by hurried sickness. And I think that is modern life today is the hurried sickness challenge.

 

Pete Cohen (04:32.138)

Yeah, you know, Ray, it's fascinating to me in terms of long form content, right? So I think long form content still has a huge place. People love podcasts. Many people like watching longer forms of content on YouTube or Netflix or and this is a long form content. Today this podcast maybe it'll be 2% of your day, let's say, which is just under half an hour.

 

where you're hearing two guys having a conversation. And I know that if you listen to this, you're probably that sort of person who likes to hear conversations. And I think that in my life, I've often given information. And many of my podcasts of the 500 episodes, many of them have been about sharing some specific things to do, as opposed to kind of what we're doing here is talking about some ideas and looking at things differently and then giving you.

 

the listener the opportunity to perhaps do things differently, be more intentional about who you are and what you do. And this whole notion of stopping is, as you just said, that maybe this is a time in your day where you're out listening to this, you're walking or you're exercising or you're in the kitchen or whatever you're doing, that it might be a little bit of a stop moment for you to pause. And Ray and I have spoken about many things, but our backgrounds are both in the health and fitness industry. Both of us used to teach.

 

aerobics, the fitness instructors, and Ray, you know, being here and speaking to the fitness industry, to people from all over the world, but predominantly Europe. And there were translators today and they were translating what I was saying, so I had to speak a little bit more slowly. It was really interesting because the energy of the fitness industry, if there was one, and this is a generalization, is one that is actually quite fast, that everyone is like...

 

ahead of themselves. So I took a stop sign with me today and I held up the stop sign. On the other side of the stop sign it says go. And I said look, it would be great for all of us to go to a better place where our businesses grow. But in order for us to go to a different place, let's all stop. And then I asked everyone what are the biggest challenges that you face. And it wouldn't surprise you and it probably wouldn't surprise anyone who's listening to this.

 

Pete Cohen (06:54.51)

One of the big challenges that the industry of health clubs, the health industry, it's attracting new clients and retaining people. Anyway, the presentation went down extremely well and I got some lovely feedback, which was really nice. I saw people who I've known for many, many years. But before we went live on this podcast, Ray, I was I was sending you a couple of messages and I was talking about why change?

 

is so challenging for people. And I'm sure people are listening to this have struggled at some points to stop doing something, to change, do things differently. I wonder what your thoughts are on what I've said so far, but just also around why change can be such a challenge for people to be, what's the word, receptive to.

 

Ray (07:47.754)

I would say that the key aspect here now is fear can drive people and we get our fixes, our daily fixes from lots of different things that keep us in what we might call comfort zones and staying in a comfort zone means it's an internal perception that I need to protect myself and change.

 

I think P automatically means uncertainty. And in change, if uncertainty is at the core of it and our fear is to stay consistent and certain, there's a conflict. So I think one of the things is, how do we embrace the notion of change, even though we don't know the full impact of a change?

 

Pete Cohen (08:39.758)

I mean, it's such a deep conversation. And I just wrote down internal protection system that we have. And one of the things, as you pointed to just a few moments ago, was around how you've been helping me. And I mentioned to you recently, I've had many guides in my life, or seven. I say seven major guiding people in my life. And you're definitely the seventh one. You're the one who's come into my life. And there's just.

 

help me look at myself differently and look at what I'm doing and what I'm saying, how I'm moving through the world and maybe realize the internal protection system that I have and how I can be reluctant to let go of what I don't need and what doesn't serve me. But one of the things I love that you say and now I've been saying this a lot is being open.

 

everything and attached to nothing and I suppose well let me just let me hear your take on what that means open to everything attached to nothing what does that mean

 

Ray (09:49.942)

It's a space where in a world you are the most flexible and you have the greatest potential for enlightenment and learning and empathy from others.

 

Obviously, it doesn't factor in, you know, moral and ethical compass, because I would say that the most important caveat is you're open to everything attached to nothing within the context of your own moral compass. So it's not a free for all, but you're open to change. You're receptive to hearing new ideas. But at the same time, you are not allowing anything of your legacy.

 

Your neck top computer, I mentioned a lot, your brain uses its five senses to program you over a lifetime and you have meaning and association with things and meaning association is really the core root of brands. The majority of young people I know, I did an exercise this week with 300 students, 98% of them have an iPhone.

 

And I asked them to say, what are the factual technological reasons for having that phone? And no one could really present an idea apart from saying, well, you've got Android operating system, and then you've got the, the Apple operating system. But most of them could express lots of aspects connected to a sense of belonging, connected to a community, confidence, trust.

 

It is the industry standard. If you don't have an iPhone, then you're not seen as someone who's cool. You can chat with other people on there. All of these things were connected to it. So immediately when someone thinks of a phone, solely a phone or mobile phone in the UK, people will automatically go there, but it's got nothing to do.

 

Ray (11:46.838)

with the facts, the facts that it is a phone that actually has built up a strong reputation because branding is about reputation. It's the meaning and association connected to reputation. However, and this is the enlightenment point to your question, Pete, when you say I'm open to everything attached to nothing, you're actually saying I'm not gonna be subject to the meanings and associations that I've built up.

 

I'm going to deliberately try to disengage to see if there's anything new that I can add to the repository of my head and heart. And that's incredibly difficult to do because we're so programmed with meaning and association in the things that we trust, the things that we rely on, the things that we're committed to, the things we're in relationship with. And when we don't know something,

 

we're not very open. So being open to everything attached to nothing says, I'm open to new discoveries. And I think that's a great space for the stop process.

 

Pete Cohen (12:52.326)

Yeah, massively the word disengage, to disengage is to stop, right? And, you know, when we think back to what we've all been through over the last few years with COVID, I think that was where many of us had to kind of re-engage or disengage, this kind of stopping to start again. And I think COVID was an amazing opportunity for us to all

 

move through the world perhaps in a more meaningful way. But I know I'm not the, I'm sure I'm not the only person in the world that struggles sometimes to, to look at things differently. And I love that whole concept around, is it a concept or is it a way of, I think it's a guiding, is it, would you say that was a guiding principle to be open to everything and attached to nothing?

 

Ray (13:48.554)

Yeah, I think it's deployment. You have to be careful and sensitive to it. I think it has very strong contextual aspects. See, I would say, and we go back through this narrative again, but you need to know who you are. You know the things that over time, I do believe we all get a sense of things that we will engage in, things we are open to. But essentially, the key thing for me is other people's philosophies.

 

don't necessarily impact us unless we decide they do. So open to everything attached to nothing is something about choice. And it takes us back to Viktor Frankl. It takes us back to many psychological paradigms, behavioral, scientific.

 

scientific perspectives and they all align to what degree of control you have. Do you have an internal locus of control? Some people talk about where you make decisions internally. Are you very much dictated by your environment? And I think that

 

in a world that's saturated with meaning and association, which is connected to what we consume, what we connect to, which is this world of brands. So everyone, particularly a younger age group, there is a commitment to it, but it's not just restricted to age group. There are people that have driven the same make of car all their life, and they've never.

 

even taking a test, a new car or a different car for a test drive, because they will tell you, oh no, I only like this car. Well, the only reason they like that car is they've committed to close off to anything else. And being open to everything attached to nothing is a decision to at least be open. And I suppose I would use that play, taking things for a test drive in a psychological conceptual way, listening to someone.

 

Ray (15:45.902)

views that you might not ordinarily listen to, you would just close them down and counsel them immediately. It's going, why do they see that differently? And to put this into frame, Pete, I do an exercise where I put a group of letters all together, but it actually is a statement. And if you read it left to right, sequentially, quantitatively, and if you're very competitive, you'll read it immediately as I am nowhere.

 

But if you stop or slow down, you'll realize it can be read in multiple ways. But it's not just I am nowhere, it could be I am now here. And when I do that exercise with clients and students and others, some people are very frustrated that they only saw I am nowhere. But the reason they only saw that was because they were closed off. They weren't open.

 

they were attached to a sequential way of reading. Whereas I find sometimes international students who may read right to left may see it differently. Or a student is just looking at the way in which the letters appear. So I bizarrely found some students who historically may be classified with particular learning.

 

specifics will read the word differently. They will take their time. But we're talking this week. I did it 90 percentile again, just like the iPhone. So I'm looking at this as a pattern of behavior that we are, and this is a strong thing to say, but we have to be careful. We don't walk around like zombies, um, open to nothing and attached to everything triggered by everything, angry about everything raging about everything.

 

and we only have a limited network of people and things in our life that we have any amount of trust with. And if one of those deviates from that, we cancel. So that's what I think is important to everything and that's nothing. It's almost a real...

 

Pete Cohen (17:43.494)

any trust with. So that's the magic.

 

Pete Cohen (17:56.094)

You know, the world has obviously changed a lot over recent years. And I really love that concept of test driving. And that's something we would love you to consider doing. Like what Ray was saying, that someone has a different idea or a different opinion, or they want to bring about a certain change in your business or your life is to rather than be attached to your old view of the world.

 

to be open to, well, I'm gonna take that idea for a test drive. Like you said before, actually, before we went live about the Bible, people that talk about the Bible, but haven't read the Bible, was like, we'll take it for a drive. So you actually, it was a big book to read, right? But I get what you're saying. And it's like, that's what I've observed here. I love the health and fitness industry. You know, you're like me. You know how passionate I am about health and being able to talk about it where it's an industry that I started in 1989.

 

Ray (18:37.494)

Yeah.

 

Pete Cohen (18:54.262)

But I see still this kind of people that are very attached to how things were. And it's kind of really right up your street because people were talking about, you know, we have these great facilities and, um, but I think where, what we're seeing in the world now is that it's not about just about having a great facility. It's about having a brand that people can identify with the brand. So they know.

 

what your brand is and what it stands for and the value that the brand offers. And just being able to be open to new ideas. And actually, when you say take it for a test drive, can you give me an example of what that might mean to you? Yeah.

 

Ray (19:41.082)

Um yeah, well the one that's very close to me and we're talking about the one to do with faith uh one of the most successful um non-obligatory Christian uh courses where people come together is a program called Alpha started I think in Holy Trinity Brompton.

 

by an individual and all it is a weekly get together social they end up with food and stuff and it's just going through some of the tenants of the Bible. Now the reason I mention it it's been extraordinarily successful in helping people just acquaint with it from different religious backgrounds people that may have had a church background and not gone to it. So this podcast is not about you know your commitment.

 

or having a commitment to anything. But those people that go along, I ran a program for many years in the UK and then I ran a program in the US actually. And what's interesting is you know when someone walks through the door that they have to be open on some level to taking in new information and be open to that. And that's really encouraging because it means you've got someone who's at least receptive to what is this all about.

 

And I think if you look at kids, kids are curious. They're a sponge. They're looking to absorb new experiences. And I think that as we get older, we get jaded and we get fixed. Things get stiff. It's like a hip joint or something. Most hip replacement surgery is as a consequence of the hip joint just becoming slightly immobilized. But if that hip is opened up,

 

through regular stretching through the life, it would save millions and millions and millions of dollars each month in the UK alone. So there are pragmatic examples as well. Now you talked about exercise, but if we look at the natural hormones in our body, dopamine and oxytocin, serotonin and endorphins.

 

Ray (21:55.926)

But endorphins are connected to exercise because bizarrely when you exercise, you're, you do, you stretch. And I don't want to use the word, but you do stress the body. And it's in the rest time that the body recovers and it's incremental improvements. Your example of health clubs is an interesting one because health clubs are a business and most health clubs make their money.

 

really from those who don't turn up. A bit like the banking industry, if everyone wants to take their money out of a bank, that's when a bank goes pop. Because a bank really doesn't have money, it uses money from those that save to give to those who borrow. So there's this little nervous equilibrium, but it's quite a science and it works well. The same thing with a health club, is the people that don't go to a health club where...

 

you're making subscription money all the time. And some people have gone in different directions. So you've got these 24 hour gyms in America here. My son goes to one of my sons goes to one, 10 bucks a month, and you can go anytime you want. It's poorly supervised. So what that's saying is you can go, and we rely on your convenience. You have to educate yourselves in using the facility, the areas, do you know how to do resistance training?

 

properly, do you know what you should be doing with cardiovascular fitness? Do you know what you should be doing in the stretch zone? None of that is provided because actually those businesses run through a business model. And I'm sounding harsh on the health fitness industry, but really health fitness industry, if it's an authentic brand, then the meaning and association of going there is the member says to themselves, this business cares about me.

 

They know that I've got a central blood pressure of 140 over 90. And they've told me through, um, the right diet, exercise, sleep and rest pattern. I can reduce those percentage points down and I might get to 130 over 80 and I may be able to come off of my blood pressure medicine.

 

Ray (24:09.046)

that's a health club that I would be interested in. The one that's just driven by, let's make some money people, then really they are looking at the decor, they're looking at clever tricks to get membership in. And I'm walking on thin ice here Pete, because you're at a conference talking about this, and I may be talking about.

 

Pete Cohen (24:25.814)

No, I don't think so at all. I don't think you're talking thin ice at all. I think it's just

 

Ray (24:30.51)

But the core of it is what does it exist for? Health clubs historically have not existed to make people healthier. They've existed for entrepreneurs to make money. And I think with a New Gen Z and millennial audience, they're more interested in people that care about them. And if you, this is like Bombas, where you'll pay for an expensive pair of socks because you know that in doing that,

 

Pete Cohen (24:51.063)

Yeah.

 

Ray (24:59.286)

that company gives a pair away to homeless and they've gone into the t-shirt and underwear market. Even Tom's shoes, not great, most expensive made shoes, but they're making a difference. So we're in an era of purpose driven. So I would love to see, I wish I could fly to Portugal, but I'd love to see really what was a purpose driven healthcare look like? Your purpose, alteratedly, is to improve the health and wellbeing of people.

 

Pete Cohen (25:18.311)

Hahaha!

 

Pete Cohen (25:29.218)

well, the whole thing was recorded. I got someone to come and film the whole thing. I'll make sure I get you a copy of it so you can watch it. You know, what's fascinating, this whole thing, and what we've been talking about is, you know, open to everything, attached to nothing, maybe taking on new ideas and just test driving them, suspending, as you said, stop, suspending the ordinary performance, you know, to just look at things from a fresh pair of eyes, which is an acronym for the word stop, right? When I...

 

When I started in the industry, the fitness industry in 1989, I often say to myself, oh, if I only knew then what I knew now, that's not possible. But when I look back as to who I was, I was someone who was incredibly enthusiastic about helping people, but I didn't realize how a lot of people thought about exercise and so on and so forth. But I just wanted to tell you just a quick story that when I finished working at that gym, I was at university, I then went to London and I worked for

 

became one of the biggest health club chains. I worked ridiculous hours. I think I worked sometimes 90 hours a week. And then I became the gym manager and I sat down with my boss and he asked me what I wanted to talk about in our first meeting. I said, I want to talk about how we can get more people in here more of the time. And he said to me, I don't want to talk about that. And I said, why not? Just as you alluded to, he said, well, we don't want that. We've got 5,000 members. We don't want them all coming in two or three days a week.

 

because they wouldn't be able to handle it. So I understood that, but I had a problem with that, right? But that was the way it was. But then 10 years later, we had a completely different conversation when we met up and he was asking me about retention because at that time there was no competition. And over the years, more and more health clubs set up shop around there. And then all of a sudden it was more about, well, we don't have that amount of people. We've got these people, how do we keep them? And then obviously, as you said, well, it's about-

 

finding out more about those people and offering value to them. Maybe not to everyone because some people they're not interested. They'll just come and they like to come. But this is where, and I would love us to spend some time talking about this maybe on other podcasts, because your passion, my passion as you know is about definitely helping people stop, definitely helping people look at where they are differently and realize that people can change. They can be

 

Pete Cohen (27:51.31)

happier, more fulfilled, it definitely starts with stop. But I know so much of what you do is about personal branding. And often when we talk about branding rate, I often think, well, maybe people don't see themselves as a brand. But everything we do from what I've learned from you is about knowing who you are at your core and knowing the value that you bring into this world.

 

And I think it's a lot easier for people to change and adapt when they know that, when they have a clearer sense of who they are and the value that they have. I just would love to get your take on that, right?

 

Ray (28:32.954)

Okay, I'm going to follow the theme of the health and exercise to talk about that. So wellbeing in the eighties, people talked about marathon running and jogging, Jane Fonda and aerobics. Then we had the step that was the slide, legs, bums and tongue, boxer size, jazz size, pilates, heavy hand clubs, and there were running clubs, walking clubs.

 

Crossfit, triathlon, ultrafit, these are all brands Pete. But they're all about activity and exercise. They have different emphasis on the body. They may really target the cardiovascular system and improve someone's VO2 max, et cetera, and the circulation of oxygen, blood around the body. Or they may be concentrated on core strength, core stability.

 

and other things, but they are all brands. What that means is there's a meaning and association with it. When you look in the diet industry, someone might talk about paleo or keto or the cabbage diet in the past. Atkins, fasting, intermittent fasting, they're all brands. And what I mean by that, yes, they're a name, but the name has meaning and association. And today we're talking about changes that

 

If you stop, take pause, take advice, build relationships with others, show appreciation for the vista of things out there. So we've talked about gratitude and appreciation, but you can't have gratitude without appreciation. There's a relationship between the two. But gratitude is an overwhelming sense, a feeling, and it's situated in you. But that starts with you being appreciative.

 

of everything around you, expressing it to others, but actually also including expressing it to yourself. And when you do that, you know that all these different propositions, whether it be in fitness or in diet or in life, in car choices, clothing, whatever it might be, they are choices. And I think today, the suggestion I would like to emphasize is that give yourself time.

 

Ray (30:54.826)

to look at all the choices. It's like a taster menu at a restaurant. You don't know what to buy and they said, we've got a taster menu, we can give you a little bit of everything. Then you start to taste and pontificate on what you enjoy. And the next time you go to a restaurant, you might go, oh, I'd like to try this or that. And if someone's listening, they've never been to a...

 

a taste decision in a restaurant, I would encourage you to be open to that. Go and find where they are. And most restaurants will do that and say, Oh, we can organise that for you. It gives someone a new introduction to their palate. If you're listening here, someone might have the same Indian every Friday and say, right, that's the food I get, chicken tikka masala, whatever it might be. And that's all they have. But I'm pretty sure they've not tried that many other options.

 

but they've associated and fixed their appreciation on one thing. We're talking about today extending that. And it's just a gentle thing. It's just about saying, am I open to something else or am I too attached to this one thing that I cannot do anything else?

 

Pete Cohen (32:11.714)

It's such a powerful way of looking at the world. It's so liberating to be able to practice this. And I think, as you said, being gentle on yourself if you choose to let go of maybe a way of thinking about things and just to try new experience. And again, this is something that we've discussed before, which is around...

 

being your own best friend with all of this. To literally be open to maybe not everything, but maybe just be open to some things being different to maybe how you currently see them. And test driving a new idea, a new way of looking at things, because I think it's such a magical way of looking at the world, and that's where curiosity comes from. And I think as we end the podcast today,

 

we would love to know from you. What do you take away from what you've heard today? What would you like people to do on the back of this podcast today, right?

 

Ray (33:16.17)

I think what you've said, being open to, and I will emphasize everything because it's up to you to decide what everything is for you because we're all individuals. But just say to yourself, what do I wanna do differently that could impact me? But here's the thing, you don't know what the impact is until you're open to it. This is the trick, everyone wants guarantees today.

 

because we've driven life in a way that we want to feel safe. And you and I have been talking about a lot of the challenges over the last few years, the conflicts. And most of societal conflicts come from a lack of tolerance for other people. And tolerance is being kind. For some people, they just shut it down immediately. And

 

As a Christian, I do love a scripture that I think is a challenge to me. I hope it's a challenge to others. But in John 420, I think it says, if you cannot love those you see, you cannot love me. It's very powerful instruction from God that, hold on a minute, if you profess to know me or say you have a faith, but you can't love those people you see, Houston, we have a problem.

 

Pete Cohen (34:36.846)

Well, we definitely do. And I reflect on what my coach said to me many years, one of those seven people who's had a huge influence on my life. And he just said, just remember, your right is someone else's left. He just always made me stop and think, how does this person see the world? And just being able to suspend what you think and be open. And I really appreciate being able to talk with you on this subject, Ray. There's so many things.

 

where you can talk about other times. I love this idea of moral compass and what that means to people. I love the idea of branding and what that means in terms of how we brand ourselves and knowing our worth and knowing our value and just looking to make more of a mark on this earth. And that's what the podcast is all about. So this has been just over 2% of your day, close to 40 minutes. So we would love to hear from you. Feel free to reach out to us on...

 

on LinkedIn, you can find both of us there. And we will be back. This is the fifth hundred and first of the podcast. And in a couple of weeks, Ray, I will I will be with you and we can do a few maybe going for a walk as we continue to inspire people all over the world. But Ray, for now, thank you so much and have a have a great day.

 

Ray (35:58.594)

Thank you, Pete. I'm just wondering whether you've got leg warmers on.

 

Pete Cohen (36:04.326)

Not yet, no, but I could put a headband on and go out there and teach an aerobics class. Actually, I did that on the stage. It's the first thing I did.

 

Ray (36:12.234)

just imagine your past sorry I was being facetious when you said you were probably in this club weren't you or something like that I'm guessing

 

Pete Cohen (36:14.87)

Well, you know what was interesting, Ray, is when I got on stage today and spoke to these like 250 people, I asked the first question, who here has ever done an aerobics class or taught a class? And I was talking about how when I used to teach a class, I used to do these massive movements. I'd be looking in the audience and I could see everyone and no one was doing as big a movements as me. And I was thinking, imagine if I was doing smaller movements, then you'd be doing smaller movements.

 

Sometimes as you said right at the beginning, there can be some fear about just letting go and having a go. And that's what we encourage you to do. But for now, yes, Ray, go on.

 

Ray (36:56.158)

No, I completely agree. I love that.

 

Pete Cohen (37:00.77)

Have a great day everyone. We will see you next time for another My365 podcast with myself and with Dr Ray.

 

Ray (37:08.566)

Take care, bye for now.