7 Apr, 2021

TRANSCRIPT

Pete Cohen  0:02

Happy beautiful day it is the Mi365 podcast. This is Pete Cohen and today we've got an amazing story. You're going to hear the story of Rhys Thomas. Who is Rhys Thomas? Well he's a former international rugby player who had a massive setback in his life. This is a transformational inspirational story we are in the story-making business. We'll see you after the theme tune.

Pete Cohen  0:56

It's good morning, good morning Rhys Thomas. How are you? Thank you so much for joining me. How are you today?

Rhys Thomas  1:01

Yeah, great, thanks Pete. Nice morning today and taking it easy.

Pete Cohen  1:06

And where are you in Welsh Wales?

Rhys Thomas  1:09

Yep, in sunny Zookal Newport South Wales.

Pete Cohen  1:14

So how we met is how I'm seems to be meeting a lot of people at the moment is this thing called clubhouse. How did you find out about clubhouse.

Rhys Thomas  1:23

Oh, Jamie Sheffy so from Behind The White Light. He, we've just not long met and he just said, by me on the website, and it's just been on a disagree week and it's just been a whirlwind for us.

Pete Cohen  1:38

Most definitely has. I mean it was it's definitely kind of, I was not expecting. You know what happened to happen, and I've been really kind of bowled over by making connections, and I can't remember where I heard your story, but I was like, Oh, okay. This isn't a story that you hear every day I actually remember your story when it happened, but I didn't know you. But let's go back a little bit further so tell us a little bit about, you know your, where you're from and tell us a little bit about your upbringing and how you came to find the sport of rugby.

Rhys Thomas  2:11

It's some as you can probably tell them what I'm not that strong well checked in, I was born in South Africa. And, you know, to a good family, you know, my mum and dad, we could have gone. We had a big wider family lots of cousins and aunties, uncles, and it was great, you know, college read the crowd, whenever we went to watch him play sport, whether it be cricket or water polo rugby, that was my family you know and that was great. Lovely upbringing went to fantastic hospital and sevens, has a lot of excellent rugby players. And that's where I kind of, I never played at 13 3014. My fish in school. And yeah, it's just an honor Thomas, he played for the first year of school which was called the reds, and our jersey was well trademark color. And it was like, you know, it was on a pedestal and Ellis kind of from day one that was my goal.

Pete Cohen  3:14

Did you want to end up playing for South Africa or did you want to play for Wales?

Rhys Thomas  3:19

I mean at the time, I wasn't really thinking pause. At that point the pinnacle for me was my school. You know once I achieve that, making the first few months I paid for for two years and then in my second year, I went to provincial week or Craven week where they then select schools, and the Academy side. And it kind of puts you a little bit in good stead for the future, to get into print to academies and looking back on it, but yeah from pretty much an early age. My dad is college and, You know we were made aware of this whole upbringing and tired wealth jersey. From a young age doing well now and I was always aware of that. And, you know I had. There were some pretty unfortunate circumstances that happened around my family. When I got brought because of the quota system, and all of a sudden they've been typically well let me in mind that I had an option. I just got out, you know, and

Pete Cohen  4:24

Same with Kevin Peterson wasn't it? There I think he was another in the cricket that can't

Rhys Thomas  4:27

Yeah

Pete Cohen  4:28

His whole quota thing of, yeah, which is a tough one, isn't it, I mean it kind of doesn't make sense in one way, but then I suppose in another way, it does make sense but it's not fair if you're kind of caught up in the middle of it right so

Rhys Thomas  4:41

Exactly and that's exactly how I felt. So I just, I took an opportunity to go to Newport, which I did, I finished school I didn't think I was going to finish, even pause my lunch at school so I got out of there before I even went on vacation, and off I went landed in Wales in 2000 November. And I think that's May or June I went to the World Cup in Chile, with the with Wales, and there was some boys obviously played was at Craven week that were at the same tournament with South Africa. Like obviously they couldn't believe it, they're like What the hell, what's going on here.

Pete Cohen  5:21

Just explained to people who don't know what the quota system was it was with after just yeah just explain for people that don't know what that what that is.

Rhys Thomas  5:29

Yeah, so basically the quota system is because of apartheid. It was obviously some serious issues there that we needed to give the blacks opportunity to get a cup to to give, to be fair, so then they wanted to, because they, they wanted the rugby team to look like the dynamic of the country.

Pete Cohen  5:53

Yeah.

Rhys Thomas  5:54

Whereas instead of picking the best players. apartheid And although obviously the. Unfortunately, it did mean for a lot over the years, they were leaving some of the best plans out there were also trying to grow through, you know, equality, and I could completely to the point of view, and it is, it was, you know, it was, what Nelson Mandela didn't allow that that happened was amazing.

Pete Cohen  6:21

Would you have rather play for South Africa if you'd have to, if you'd had your chance.

Rhys Thomas  6:28

I definitely, I wouldn't say on Robert, I would have if it will happen naturally, it would have happened. Yeah, exactly, exactly what happened was I left, I ended up paying Wells 1921 CNC, and that was just like, No, that was, I found a love for Wales, you know, Murray had it in my blood, but

Pete Cohen  6:46

So tell me what was always your dream so when you when you, when did you first realize right you know I want to play at the highest highest level. When did you say right, that was not only a dream but it was kind of could be a reality.

Rhys Thomas  7:00

I think when I left school, I had a great last year, in my first team, and I was super confident that I could I could make it as a rugby player, I suppose I was at full Philippines I had a lot of confidence myself and I thought, I'll go over to pose and like I said within months of learning it more accurately. And we finished fourth from that world cup, we know we had a great side. And that was, you know, at that point it was time. I will say, again I didn't look too far in the future, when I kind of, you know, I kind of knew that this is possible now this is what I want to pursue, flat out.

Pete Cohen  7:42

Tell me about your first cap the first time playing for those people that don't know what rugby is probably know what it is but how big it is in Wales, and how big it was for you. What was your first cap like, What do you remember about that?

Rhys Thomas  7:55

Yeah, well, my first cap was in Argentina, in Buenos Aires, I came off the bench. We lost the test we have to last. But I mean, the tour was a fantastic experience. It was amazing. Like, obviously, to be there, but also you know sometimes coming off, and I was doing it was a little bit. You know I was, I felt I was super happy. I wanted to I wanted to find unity I wanted to try and push on, you know, what is it to be in front of a bigger crowd because the crowd was pretty cool that game was over. You know I was extremely proud I brought my cap home, and it was the start of what was going to be a good journey.

Pete Cohen  8:37

And tell me go I know you had a very interesting career but tell us about the, the best moment, in terms of playing for Whales.

Rhys Thomas  8:45

You know, I had the privilege of meeting Nelson Mandela, obviously my here, which was just amazing. But my highlights were probably going against me in the grant area at the millennium, another principality, that was just phenomenal, and then playing it. I played against South Africa twice. Once also won the World Cup in 2007, at, at home, and then I played. The second time I played them was at Loftus personnel, and it was just pretty cool for me until I started that game, and it was just like, 40 minutes on my house. I had a lot of family and friends there. Yeah, that was a that was a big one for me.

Pete Cohen  9:34

What were the crowd like what was the crowd like what would the South African crowd in the South African players like to you.

Rhys Thomas  9:41

Yeah I mean South Africa at the time was strongside and amazing, second row, authorship was Bucky Buck he's worth matfield to like an legends of the game you know and Becky's was the enforcer and you know he I think he called me a trait though and it's just, it comes with the territory.

Pete Cohen  10:02

Banter, banter

Rhys Thomas  10:05

Yeah it was amazing, they all thing was just surreal and it was incredible to share that with my family as well. Yeah,

Pete Cohen  10:12

I have a lot of friends who are just mad, mad rugby fans, if I tell you a quick story of one of my mentors, by his by my best friend. He was my best man. He was a very very good rugby player and he paid for wasps, and he was a game of rugby between x South Africa and X New Zealand at wrestling Park, and in New Zealand where one player shop in India hadn't played rugby for, I don't know. 10 years or something, and someone said, Does anyone know someone who can play for New Zealand and and he just said I'll play it. So he goes down, puts the, you know, puts on the Jersey, and they're literally, they really want to win New Zealand right obviously, they're all jumping up and down hitting the walls and is in there, then they go out into the pitch. And of course, Andy hasn't even thought about the fact of what they're about to do, which is the hacker, right, so we're watching this and you're saying 14 people doing the ACA and one person doing the Hokey cokey. He doesn't know what to do. I stood out like a sore thumb. He actually scored two tries. To try in the first minute because it was on the wing.

Pete Cohen  11:20

And, yeah, you know it's a funny thing about sports sport does so many things that you know obviously it brings people together and I think, you know you playing at the highest level that just must have been so amazing, but I can tell just by you talking about it, but obviously that all kind of just went out the window right I mean, you know, I know your story and you know feel free just to share any part of it with the people that are listening what happened, how did this alternate turn around.

Rhys Thomas  11:48

Yeah so, literally, you know obviously my international career faded away into the black sea ice field incidents and, you know, my focus maybe wasn't there enough to continue with my international creating I wasn't much fantastic a professional tweeter.

Pete Cohen  12:06

You had your eyes on give out your eyes on other things right you know like the light.

Rhys Thomas  12:11

Yeah, the light wrappings yeah my lifestyle was an issue, there's no denying, And in 2012, then I had a, I was just in the gym with let's call it during I was in early January, January the 17th probably on the 16th, and I was just doing a interval bike session in the gym just cycling away next to Morgan stolid we were just talking about the USB cord on the weekend, and it was only a 45 minute class, and I just I felt incredibly busy. Our test was really so my head my arm was hurt and I knew I was having a heart attack. And I just walked across the gym, I could not hardly see open the physios rooms door just said like, I'm having a heart attack. Sorry not. Whoever it was, yeah. Literally I just went down the corridor itself on floor. And I knew I knew I was having a heart attack but you know ahead of small TerraForm 2007 And I was like, Oh, that's okay. And I'll push through it, it'll just be a little anti Graham. Yeah, and I'll be fine, you know, but that wasn't the case. I got rushed to the hospital, and they lost during the angiograms had noticed, this is not and a lot of heart in your heart masking, a lot of matters of mine. So that's even needed your bypass bypass was whatever comes on.

Pete Cohen  13:46

It comes right next week.

Rhys Thomas  13:48

Literally. And that was that I woke up, and wow, my life, you know, beginning of what was to be an incredibly hard. Seven year journey of, you know, loss of identity and dealing with emotions and feelings and a lot of mental health issues, but God had a quadruple bypass when I broken up. And I was very lucky to survive the operation. The doctors area, he thought that when he opened my test the amount of parking I had in my heart, and the amount of muscle that I'd lost that, It was less than 30% chance of survival. So, when I actually woke up, I had had a pump inserted in my to my groin, with a little balloon that was next to my heart, to take the actual beating of my heart, and while I was imaged. And I had to lie flat on my back for a week, I will not sit up, and it was just, it was crazy. I was very ill are very, you know, I was on a lot of drugs and all that, to give you a, you know, today to sort of it was just a surreal experience you know I was also like, will I be okay, and I didn't. It was very confusing time very instantly woke up and I had a good sleep, articles, and it was like like an anxiety. I was having panic attacks. I didn't sleep for like five days. It was crazy. It was a really insane time.

Pete Cohen  15:17

So, you know, I'm sure you've told the story so many times and you will continue to tell it to me as you know I'm more interested in, you know what you want to do for me. There's no significance at all. Obviously to people that are listening, you know, I think it will. And that's why, the reason and I really want to delve into what you said about losing your identity because that to me is really interesting is that you identified with yourself as a rugby player with a certain type of lifestyle, and all of a sudden it's gone. So were you asking yourself, Who the, who am I, basically.

Rhys Thomas  15:53

Well, I tell you what, that the ensuing months that led up to that heart attack were incredibly candid. What was the physical battle because I was very ill, so that kind of in a way gave me a bit of a focus, because you know I've always loved mark. I've always been a character that he loved being around people, you know, yeah, very badly, I suppose, and you know I didn't I didn't want to die, you know I was, I was devastated. And I mean devastated that I'd lost my career I didn't, I didn't feel that I couldn't deal with.

Pete Cohen  16:29

Yeah, absolutely. I mean how do you deal with something like that, you know,

Rhys Thomas  16:33

That I had to focus on surviving. I didn't want to die, you know, two young kids might might do all the kids were, you know, they, they'd seen their dad, with like this, career, and then not to see me like, literally, either couldn't walk up a flight of stairs, serious, I just stopped three times on the way up, because I feel like so out of breath. Now every time I set up i incredibly busy my blood pressure shots are in my Oh, my heart only 30% In fact, things carried on like this for a while, for about a year and a half to the point where then I needed another operation, because I needed a heart transplant because my, my heart was shut, visited damage that was inflicted from the first dead heart attack in either pregnancy my lungs and pulmonary hypertension. I was informed that I ended up having to get a machine to bring a picture of the Left Ventricular systems, internal pump that's emulated into my inside of my heart, accepts the blood off my arm, my left side my left sides, Go back to a patent then into my aorta, through fire, and it's an external lead that comes out of my abdomen.

Pete Cohen  17:50

Batteries right and every eight hours.

Rhys Thomas  17:53

Yeah, that by the time they got to be swapped through in the evening, against the mains. off to the long wire basically.

Pete Cohen  18:01

Yeah, yeah, I mean that's just, you know, I suppose you just have to find a way but you were obviously quite angry for a while.

Rhys Thomas  18:10

I was incredibly better. I hated rugby, I felt like the region's and in the W and the Players Association that they left be like, you know like a man in balance, they can engine man and battle, and I didn't have a lot of support from any of them. And, unfortunately, I've managed to through the last 17 months have been obviously so but being able to look back on that and reflect and carry, forgive them. Yeah, yeah, move on, because I wanted to be proud of my, of what I achieved. I wasn't able to do so because I was so angry inside, you know with myself as well. You know because I ended achieved, and that's fine I can say that I underachieved because I know I forgiven myself. You know I got. We talked about in the lifestyle, and the chaos and shoot around that in a bit hang them up and defend my, my, what I could have achieved. But that's all part of life. You know what I mean yeah,

Pete Cohen  19:21

So, I mean again, I know there's more to the story and we can dive into it but I think what's more interesting is, for me is, you know, what are you doing now and what was the point. I got you just tell us the point where you just finally thought, You know what, I'm not doing this anymore. I've had enough of this lifestyle because you drank you almost drink yourself to death.

Rhys Thomas  19:39

Yeah, so like, literally, all the things we just talked about. I mean, you've had, you've heard this story a few times that week. Think is a loss of identity. Definitely felt a lot of issues about not being able to do normal exercise with lift weights, you know, kids go for a run or for a swim, or have a boss, you know, I could only have a shower with a waterproof bag machine. And this is all stuff I had to adapt to which made me feel like not only did I feel like I lost my career, but then I was like, disabled, like fully So, like it was a big hit to my, my confidence, my pride, my ego. And, you know, I think what I did was at this table and they would ask me, how are you. Fine. As my sponsor tells me you know find me insecure neurotic and emotional. Yeah, and that's kind of how what I was like, stonewalled and I'll be glad to be. And I couldn't be with my kids. I used alcohol to deal with it. That's my choice. And I ran away from it because I was full of fear. Absolutely riddled with it and vs September 2019 I had an incident which changed my life forever. And subsequently went into rehab, and just completely changed my life, to the point where I've been sober 10 months now, and I've been able to really look at who I was, who Rhys was reflective of my life. Yeah, and take a different angle.

Pete Cohen  21:25

Do you think that person was always there but it was just buried under just like mask? No I do not know I want you to call it that just being someone who you really weren't, but which was probably fun right but it was never going to lead to real real fulfillment, I would imagine

Rhys Thomas  21:41

No that you know all this stuff that I did, and I got I had some fun to eat my lord, I mean, but also did some shitty things, you know what I mean. And I put, I put in the family and my wife, especially my ex wife now. You know, through a hell of a lot of shit, no she would beg me please don't go out and go to that state, please don't do that. And what would I do I'd go and do it with a machine, knowing that I would be putting my life. Nice. and you know that's what I was always mentally, I couldn't, I couldn't live with that side I'd rather just turn it off and I dressed it up as fun. It was probably fun for 10 minutes, the rest I couldn't even remember. Yeah, it was, it was a nightmare Pete. And I was exhausted when I went into rehab. I was, I was just, I literally had it.

Pete Cohen  22:35

Did you know that?

Rhys Thomas  22:37

I didn't want to go, but when I when I literally just, I just went I just said like listen, whatever it takes, is I haven't considered this shit. I want to unpack everything I've ever had ever done, or every secret I've got in my locker. I'm going to tell you it all of it.

Pete Cohen  22:55

Did you go through any kind of, would you call it. Withdraw with alcohol.

Rhys Thomas  23:01

No, because I had. I mean, I ended up in rehab is just insane. I mean, I ended up getting my mates, I've been sober early enough because I first September was when I stopped being in the, I went into rehab on the first of February, so I didn't drink for five months, but I white knuckled because I crossed addicted gaming on FIFA for like eight hours a day, obviously with my family. I wouldn't move off the city. It was a raft of other issues that came into it. And, you know, I was added at this point because I've crossed a line, and to go over that line, you know, coming back, yeah I need to provide a lot of learners that I was easy to blame and attempted, that it was me that was the problem. And once I figured that out, I was able, life into play, but also through you know, accountability, honesty, transparency, and that start with me, and that's what. Now when I went in January to see my friend, because he invited me to go to his house, Mauritius, and then I didn't go home with the family, they went home and I ended up going to Riyadh, and my, my friend, who my friend my ex wife, and my brother and two of my other veteran both in school, that I've met from case, they paid for me to go to rehab.

Pete Cohen  24:27

How long have you been there for?

Rhys Thomas  24:29

28 days in Cape Town,

Pete Cohen  24:32

It could worse places to be. So when you. So right now, how do you feel, how do you feel about who you are right now tell me about your identity now, who do you identify, because you know the word identity means the state of being the same. So most of us, we recreate the state of being the same we think I am this person I think this way I do this, which is what you were doing and then all of a sudden that just went, I can't do that anymore. Now I don't have an identity. What is it now.

Rhys Thomas  25:01

Yeah, I think. Yeah, right now I'm just Rhys,

Pete Cohen  25:07

Yeah but who is Rhys? I may that sounds like a deep question but who is Rhys?

Rhys Thomas  25:11

Yeah, well Rhys now is a person who had as identified with who I am, I found a piece within myself from, you know, by being honest and transparent and opening up to not judging anything. I found a way to see the world as we all is one. Yeah, and I know this sounds crazy like I would be telling me to shut up.

Pete Cohen  25:39

Your old you would have told you that, yeah.

Rhys Thomas  25:43

But by, you know, working the 12 step program of recovery. What that told me was that my sponsor gave to me that information, he worked with me for free, helped me through that and kind of showed me the way that I had to give back. I had to do service, they call it service, but that service for me was, I felt like I did it in rehab. I wrote something down of what I wanted to do and I didn't even find this to the other day, but I wanted, I wanted to help people by telling them what happened to me. My experiences that how it could help them, you know if I can help one person. So that's how I get meets now, the person that I want to use my life experiences with a clarity that I have now to be able to help change people's lives to realize that no matter how many times you get knocked down no matter how bad involved, you know there is a way. And also you can avoid it by, you know, talking, is, you know, can be a token it can be methods, not you know your program really change your mindset, getting rid of that. Yeah,

Pete Cohen  26:55

I think that, so obviously getting to know you a little bit I think that you are a natural team player. It just it's everything about you is about everybody I remember saying cricket, I used to love playing sport, and something What was amazing about playing cricket is that you'd come up afterwards. And you've all had a different experience yet you were still in the same game, and you talk about your experience and you'd kind of enjoy it and you'd feel connected to people I just think that part of who you are is born to bring people together where they feel that they can be themselves and they can, they can be that they can express themselves, and I can see you creating the space for that to happen more and more and more and I would love to continue to help you with that. I think one of the interesting things about AA, is that you know when you say I'm an alcoholic. I used to I used to kind of question that and I remember I've got a picture of me and Ronnie O'Sullivan over there I used to say to him, Ronnie, I don't think you're an addict, you know, and he thought about that. And then when he lost in the World Championship. The first year I worked with him, he went on a bender for three or four months, because he thought to himself, maybe I'm not an addict, whereas he is an addict, you know, like I'm an addict I'm an addict to gambling. That's why I don't do it, you know, I wouldn't, I just know it. And I think that we, you probably have that addictive nature right so it's like, you probably couldn't drink. A drink right you'd have to, you'd have to smash it it all have to go right.

Rhys Thomas  28:20

Oh yeah, I mean, it's with everything, you know, it's with food. It's with, you know it can be anything in there like I can't control that. Now then,

Pete Cohen  28:29

I mean, now.

Rhys Thomas  28:31

By I can identify it, and I can think well that's unhealthy because I think what I realized now is that life's just about balance, you know, and I'm not perfect, my God I'm far from this, but it's been able to admit mistakes, you know, being accountable, and understanding that it's fine to do a little bit too much on the weekend or Indian sweets as okay like it's balanced really well, because I understand now benefit of our eating well, it's changed how I feel. And I've started to understand why the longer is going on different I've gone from sleeping or eating well, you know, small things, even like picking caffeine. caffeine. To explain, in a way because this kind of happened.

Pete Cohen  29:32

So what's, what's it like, what's it like being you now. I mean, like you say, I understand that nobody's perfect. You know what's it like being you walking through the world right now.

Rhys Thomas  29:43

I just, I see the beauty of what what is around me in every form. That means when I go for a walk, I'll see like in the bottom end of spring, like, the smells, the, it can be the smallest things been I mean I only think of Linus and this is true, I noticed, just as he enjoyed the things that were around me. I was always looking for the next thing I was never had two minutes, but the minute I started to accept who I was. I started to see the things or other people around me that one, that means something to me so I invest more time. And I never appreciated my family, my, my children and I said, I said it, but I didn't mean, because I was, because I, in the bed nice to me was reach them, when I wasn't because I was incredibly self centered and selfish but now, you know, I want to I want to change, and give back to those around me, and that is open, open my eyes to a whole world. I'm just grateful for everything, whether it be the house I'm living in with heating a call, you guys things haven't been easy peace since I've been together my wife left me. My wife of 16 years. I lost my insurance, which covered me for my payment protection policy from my injury, because I talked about my issues, and the insurance company wrote to me so we didn't suppose this, your career, you know I've had like major things happened had to sign up on Universal Credit I've had to, I got a victory letter for my house that I was renting. These are all things that happened to me, whilst being told. But the way that I changed my mindset on my sobriety has allowed me to see the message for what it is, what does this teach me, you know, what's the lesson from. And I just yeah I don't have that mentality, like oh well I mean, life what's happening for me. Learn from the next call make these mistakes.

Pete Cohen  31:53

Well, I thought, you know, I think you know this, we should get a room, definitely in Clubhouse, you and I will host the room and we'll do it around, you know, well being, or whatever you want to talk about, um, how can people help and support you with what you're doing right now and how can people best connect with you.

Rhys Thomas  32:09

Well, obviously, Instagram, LinkedIn, I think I'm rhysthomas333 on Instagram, also reached, three, and LinkedIn just Rhys Thomas. But yeah I'm looking for ways to health and well being sick. Most of you know I'm helping charities are exporting jobs. The gloves are on, and tidy but which are all things that I'm doing, given me a purpose, kind of not always open to collaboration, cool ideas that how we can help people do these incredibly candid talks, and that's just something that's keep me going at the minute,

Pete Cohen  32:52

I'm definitely going to go up before you get a heart transplant. I'm also going to connect you with a couple of people that I think I'm going to connected with a guy that was doing okie dokie. So his charity used to control Cricket for Change, but now it's just Changed foundation, I think, and they do a lot of work in the world of sport.

Pete Cohen  33:12

Yeah, no, yeah. So listen, I really appreciate being able to spend this time with you and can get your story out there. I think that people will be inspired by you and I'm definitely inspired by, by what you're going to do like I said know what you've done. I mean, that was great. That's over, you know, it's what I now you're sober, it's like, now what, and together we can achieve more, you know, when people come together and yeah so I'm really grateful I can't wait to, when this lockdown thing is over and I can actually

Rhys Thomas  33:44

I was gonna say to I can't wait for good catch

Pete Cohen  33:46

Yeah I'll be beyond whenever.

Pete Cohen  33:53

Thank you so much.

Rhys Thomas  33:55

No, Thank you.