5 Feb, 2022

#190 Power of Ambition with Richard Chatley


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“Ambition is the path to success. Persistence is the vehicle you arrive in.” – Bill Bradley

Ambition is the desire to achieve dreams. Everybody has dreams but not everyone can sacrifice their comfort, what they already have, to reach something that requires so much trust in the unknown. 

In this episode, listen to Richard Chatley and I talk about ambitions and the fascination of sacrifices, and how it is a natural part of reaching your goals. 


✅ Worry less about being unstoppable. 

✅ Nurture ambition. Work out and think through what works for you and what your reality is. 

✅ There are things that you need to sacrifice in order to reach your goal. 

Some important stories in the episode:

-(25:25) Story about Napoleon Hill’s journey


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Pete Cohen 0:00
Happy beautiful day. It is the Mi365 podcast and today we're talking all things, ambition, why we need ambition and why it could be the thing that you're looking for in your life and I have a special guest with me. His name is Richard Chatley. I'll see you and him after the theme tune.

Pete Cohen 1:04
Yeah, let's get ready to rumble. Richard, thank you so much for joining joining me today. How are you?

Richard Chatley 1:09
Yes. Very good. Thanks, Pete. How are you?

Pete Cohen 1:11
I'm fantastic. I'm going to ask you to get a little bit closer to the microphone and you're moving in so you're an avid podcaster. Right. I am. You often send me podcasts to listen to in fact, I met Damien Hughes and Phil the other day so he's the other half of the High Performance elements. Yeah, yeah, he's he really is a fascinating guy, isn't he? He's good, because he's obsessed with how does this work? You know, how do you how do you get that? In the right way? How do you help someone what's in the way, but for those of us that don't know who you are, please tell us who is Richard Chatley.

Richard Chatley 1:45
So who am I? I suppose my introduction as to how I know up I've been working with you for a couple of years. And I approached you because I was sort of interested in in mind development, initially in my career in my work, and then that sort of spread more widely. I was looking at all areas of my life, I suppose. And yeah, we've worked quite closely for a couple of years and done lots of lots of good stuff.

Pete Cohen 2:13
Yeah. Well, you've actually just turned up at my house unannounced. Now I'm only joking. I've been planning this for a while and it's a is great. And I said to you before, you know you sat down and I put the camera straight on you and basically said, Did you know that you are my avatar? What was that like me asking you that?

Richard Chatley 2:32
That was? Yeah, it's probably hard to absorb probably hard to quite imagine that. That is true. Maybe that's people don't necessarily look at themselves that closely and and understand what they're doing.

Pete Cohen 2:47
So yeah, yeah, I mean, I think I tried to help everybody, you know, for a long time and then realize that most people don't really want to be helped or they're not ready to be helped or I'm not the right person to help them but for me, you are the avatar big for a lot of reasons. But one is you've got to a point in your life where you want more, you want to become more and what I love about you is that you want to outperform what you've done. You always want to Oh that was good, but now I want to get better. And I remember you made a comment when we talked about this maybe six months ago maybe even more about how you always knew that there was something more and your biggest frustration What was your biggest frustration,

Richard Chatley 3:27
the frustration was not knowing what it was. So having a sense of I should be doing more or I I've got potential to be doing more but I don't know where that is and what it looks like.

Pete Cohen 3:38
And what about now so now that we've been working together, you've been a part of Mi365 Elite Pro. What's different now what do you know now that you didn't know then

Richard Chatley 3:47
I'm doing lots of things I enjoy and I'm progressing out. So I suppose I've got things to go out now. I'm probably a lot more confident about if I'm interested kind of explore it turn away the things that aren't right for me and things that are right then how far do I want to take them make that decision and it's not about kind of making massive commitments to sort of a certain certain progress, I think just I have a much better feel for where, where can I progress, what's good for me what fits with what I'm doing? And when I've got the sense that I want to make sort of steps forward, I can just

Pete Cohen 4:29
do it now. As opposed to what what were you kind of doing before?

Richard Chatley 4:32
Not not knowing which direction to go in? Maybe being a bit kind of stuck in that

Pete Cohen 4:39
second guessing. Yeah.

Richard Chatley 4:42
Not maybe looking for kind of particular solutions and ways to get there. You know, kind of how do I get from A to B and if that road was was blocked thinking it's not possible, but actually there are kind of other ways or maybe it's not just a to b Maybe there are other things to focus on. I think I've got a better appreciation of probably a timing now. It's not always the right time to do everything. You've got to think you've got to work well together. And sometimes if you really focus in one area, other things have to be sacrificed.

Pete Cohen 5:20
But I suppose that's such an interesting thing around how do you know it is the right time to do something? I don't know.

Richard Chatley 5:29
I think you just know you know when you know. I think I'm always fascinated by other people who've had particular successes and you know, peaks we often chat about sports people as an example. I'm fascinated in their success, but I think what I really I enjoy watching it or listening to it is the kind of sacrifice they make in other areas. So might be sports, people will focus 110% on what they're doing, but there is this other side to their life of things they haven't done and they might neglect you know, probably possibly their mental health and other areas or their friends or their family or once they've won their gold medal. What do they do afterwards? Because they go home with them head on. They haven't given other areas of their life, any kind of focus. So I think I've kind of I suppose I've got more awareness that you've got to balance different areas and it's it feels better if you've got several areas that are kind of complementary, rather than just having that kind of focus on just your work or I suppose some people would focus just on their family. It's not not a bad thing. But

Pete Cohen 6:43
so you really, you really focus on the big three. I'm actually going to look up a word. There's a couple of words that you said that I want to look at the etymology of. So the first one is ambition. I really because we were talking about that before we went live so that when we look at ambition, what does it mean? It means a desire and determination to achieve success. Well, that's pretty obvious an object of an ardent desire a feeling of optimism, development of action a direct development of an action plan. And then the other word is sacrifice. Because you just said that you like it when you see people make a sacrifice and I wonder why that is? The word sacrifice to give away for the purpose of gaining something else. Or we obviously most people know the word sacrifices, you know, to offer as a religious sacrifice to give something towards a cause to shun or shy away or throw under the bus. Yeah, I really like that. I really like the idea but what is it because I'm like that about the sacrifice. Why? Why do we like that? Why do we like the idea of look what he sacrificed to get to where he got to why is that important? Yes. It's it's a

Richard Chatley 7:57
kind of reflection of that level of commitment to achieving. Yeah, that's the thing. So if you're willing to kind of go through that, that hardship, and I always come back to kind of physical training, that's the thing that always pops in my head is the kind of comparison but if you're willing to get out of bed every day or 4am, or 5am, and go out when it rains and you just keep doing it, then you deserve the reward,

Pete Cohen 8:22
but it's fascinating because people love seeing that I think maybe when they're when they see others doing it, but not people they know they don't like it when people they know that because it's like reminds them that maybe they could be doing something like that. But in films I see that rocky for there's a remake of it coming out and when you look at the battering that's investors that mean rocky took in the it's not real, the battering that he took in the film, but all of the training that he did, and he actually ended up winning over the Russian crowd, Rocky, Rocky, and what is it about that again? I don't know. It's like, why do we Why do we resonate with that and go, Wow, look, look what he did. Look what he sacrificed what he overcame. I wonder what is in our deep psychology that makes us resonate with that. And I don't know what it is, but I think nothing tastes better than doing it yourself.

Richard Chatley 9:16
Yeah, I think a lot of people love to watch it. I like in films because I think we love the idea that things can be achieved. They are within our grasp. I think a lot of people will get stuck is the work because it's hard work doing it. And my new say, when you meet people who maybe aren't doing the work, they don't necessarily like it when you show the success. Yeah, well, it's different. It's different, isn't it when things are kind of close to you because it reflects back on you and you think Yeah, they did a lot better than me in an area but that's because they're doing the work and are not.

Pete Cohen 9:50
Well, that's just so happens in organizations. People don't like it when they see people progressing or working, working a bit harder. And I know you've probably heard me say that natural state of this if I left that garden, which I'm looking at right now, and already it's becoming overrun with there's loads of leaves there. They need to be raked up and there's there's loads of weeds. The natural state is discourse, the natural state is dysfunction. And I'm going to if I want that garden to be great, who's going to do the work? Well, I'm gonna have to do or I'm gonna have to pay someone to do it. But however I look at it, there's a price to pay. And I think is it is there it's a weird thing, isn't it? Because there's a there seems to be a price to pay for anything that you want. However, a lot of people like you said they just don't want to do the work. I don't know why that is I think maybe because why do it if you don't have to do it. Why do it if you could take the easy route and the world is just so full of of just take it easy you

Richard Chatley 10:50
know why? Don't do it now? Yeah, can easy today. Think about it later? Yeah, yeah,

Pete Cohen 10:54
no, don't don't worry about that. I do that tomorrow. Just listen, get on your phone and order something on Amazon. That we've created this world where? I don't know. It seems like people are unhappier than they've ever been. There's more mental health problems and there's ever been, it seems like where does the greatest fulfillment come? Does the greatest fulfillment come in the sacrifice? Does the greatest fulfillment come in doing something that is different? It must be right because if we went out there now, and we put on some Wellington boots, and we tidied up the garden, afterwards, we'd probably sit down and go that was a good job was a good job done. Yeah. Yeah. And it's almost like I don't know. It's almost like the, the outcome actually isn't that important? Because the joy is in what we did,

Richard Chatley 11:37
in the fact that you did it. The fact you actually got out there and did it it's raining outside Yeah, really feel like it but we'll say we'll have that satisfaction if it was raining and we could have stayed inside but went out and we did it and that's the that's the kind of buzz isn't it? That's always was the way I think

Pete Cohen 11:54
so. I suppose I just find it weird as why doesn't everybody think like that?

Richard Chatley 11:58
But it's logical. But it takes effort to do it. And I think yeah, I think particularly on the kind of bigger things you I mean, you can say, I won't I'll just, I'll just do the washing up now and I'll, I'll feel better when I've done it. And that takes two minutes and a lot of people can kind of get their head around that but I don't know bigger, bigger goals. There's always the risk. They won't work out. Yeah, people are people scared us probably scared that. What happens if this doesn't work out? What are the risks? Where does that leave me?

Pete Cohen 12:28
Well, that kind of opens up the whole Pandora's box around the fixed mindset, which again, I know that's an area that you really like to look at the whole kind of I am who I am, I can't change it. I'm I don't want to show myself I don't want to look stupid, I don't want to stand out. I don't want to fail because then you'll see that I'm not good enough. I want validation. But this is the thing I'm really fascinated in the true growth mindset. Where just on a different level, you see everything in life is about the opportunity to make something better than what it currently is any situation. Any experience. Oh, I could I could make that better. I could do that better. I could improve that area. And I don't know if you agree. I'm curious. Do you think that everyone deep down maybe has that desire to to make something better?

Richard Chatley 13:18
I think they probably do and people show it in different areas. So some people perceive careers. Some people like to have stuff stuff some people like to really tidy house, they pride themselves on having a tidy house and other areas of their life. They don't put any focus in but they have to have a tidy house. So I think if you're actually to look for it, probably most people show it somewhere. Yeah. But you could you can if you want to show it in lots of areas and you can have kind of big, big ambitions. Yeah, guess what, what I find exciting and I like ambition where people have it in a measured way and they kind of respect it. And that comes back to doing the work because it's if you just have an ambition to have the biggest business in the world. I mean, that's great. But if you've got to measure it with I need to have the right people around me I need to do the work. I need a good idea. I need some luck. I'm going to need customers. I'm going to need some backing. Lots of things to consider. You can't just have a hope that I want the biggest business and I think that's that for me is that the bit that excites me when people start kind of putting the pieces together.

Pete Cohen 14:31
You know, it's where it's at. It's this those conversations where you sit down and you work with a coach or someone who can help you map out. You know what you want to do? Why you want to do it and then literally, the process and again, I did a podcast this morning about the power of now, Eckhart if you can't read that book, The Power. Yeah. And I didn't want to read that book. I resisted it for such a long time because I didn't want to read a book about being in the now. I hated the now I wanted to be away from the past and in a future that didn't really exist. But when I really started to understand what he was talking about it is common sense. It's just not prep commerce and practice around that thing of it's good to have goals. However, if you don't enjoy the process, enjoy the blood. Enjoy the sweat enjoy. I mean, I might just weird like you that, you know, I could go on an exercise bike and I could feel like oh, this is really hard work and I really feel like stopping but you know, no, I'm going to get through this. I'm going to get through the other side. Is that some sort of weird human trait?

Richard Chatley 15:33
I think it is. I know I know people like that. I'm a bit like that. And I say I like running. I don't really I kind of hate running but I like I like doing it. I keep doing it. It's like hating it

Pete Cohen 15:46
without performing yourself. Every time I'm outperforming myself because your former self might say something different is that no I'm not I'm not giving in to that I'm I'm reinventing this morning. Also I was talking to a group of people they were talking about know your y know your y and I was thinking I think knowing your Y is a little bit overrated to be honest. Because if your y isn't attached to who, who do you want to be then what's the point you just have a y that is built on who you are now and who cares because you forget your way tomorrow it'll be gone. Unless a disaster or something happens bad right that you're just you know, do you think it's important? Yeah. So when we talk about ambition Do you think ambition is being ambitious about who you could actually be?

Richard Chatley 16:30
I think that that's ambition. It's about who you can be what you can achieve what you can. What you can do with what you have. Yeah, yeah, what other people can achieve. So are you How old are you now? 39.

Pete Cohen 16:43
So are you excited about who you're going to be?

Richard Chatley 16:47
Yeah. I'm probably the most excited about the future I have ever been. Well, I would say that's it having more confidence and kind of control around it.

Pete Cohen 16:58
So what's also great is obviously the work that we did we address being ambitious with those three areas that you are ambitious, in mean brilliantly ambitious in terms of you like the perfect man, you know, just in terms of Yeah, well I mean life Yeah, right. Well, yeah. Well in terms of you know, your health and your well being you look after your health you you know that's a challenge to do but let's let's be on it you're healthy you're well you're active you eat well, you you used to what you really got into are kind of this whole Magnificent Seven and looking at your health from the point of view, eat right drink, right thing, right talk, right? Who right sleep, right? And so you've got you've kind of got that dialed in, but you've also got dialed in your relationships, right? I would imagine you've got a relationship with your 15 month year old son. Yeah. And you want to be the best that you can be with that the best that you can be as a as a husband as a friend, but also your work as well. That's also something that's really important to you. Yeah. So you want to you've got ambitions in all of those areas. Why do you think it's important to be ambitious in those areas to have something to work towards in those areas?

Richard Chatley 18:05
I think, for me, the balance is so important. And I was I sort of looked at this early on and thought why why do you want to be really ambitious in your work? And I think people do have pride in what they do and enjoyment and there's probably some kind of status and sense of achievement in progressing. But also you want to earn money. Why do you want to want to earn money probably to spend with your family. And you want to go on holiday and have nice things and do nice things. So the work is supporting your family but family. What's the most important thing for your family's health, your own health of their health? Yeah. So then all of a sudden, you've got these three things that kind of depend on each other and set each other up. You're only going to be good in your work. If you are healthy. Your family can very quickly pull you away from your work or they can support you in your work. You'd get more enjoyment with your family if you are successful, healthy. So whichever way you look at it. I mean, I think I always come back to health is the most important that's the number one because if you lose that the other two are definitely gonna suffer. But equally, it feels like the three of them sort of supported by each other. So you've got to address them all. Otherwise, they you can't progress that

Pete Cohen 19:24
yeah, you'll end up with a problem. Yeah, it's a challenge because those are three things. So you know, that's the world that we live in. And if you ask people what areas of their life would they like, improvement in? Most people would say, oh, yeah, I definitely want more energy, more health, more vitality. Most people would say I want better relationships. I want to have a better, more meaningful relationship with the people that matter. Most and the same with work and service and wealth. So I'm really interested in what you talk about and be what ambitions have you got now. Because what have you achieved you think since we've been working together, what is different between who you were and who you are now?

Richard Chatley 20:03
There are there are quite large sort of tangible. Things. And in the early stages, we did kind of goal setting and part of that was defining exactly what I was going to do and things like fitness. So I said things like, I'm going to do the sanctuary. I was going to do a 10k every month because I was fit enough and I thought why don't I just commit to this or do a 10k each month and that's part of the plan and then sort of work back what gets in the way. Is it time is it having people to to go and do it with is it my fitness, whatever it might be? And I had goals in my kind of in my career as well through my job. And I suppose goals around relationships and family time and friends and so kind of tangible things I could set out and I wanted to achieve. And I suppose that early goal setting I've I've ticked those off the list and I continue to do them and develop them. So I've kind of resettled the goals and but my stretch goals and yeah, we're getting better but I think the layer but the bit that I haven't sort of documented in the same way is the the understanding of it's the supposes that kind of sounds a bit corny doesn't it? Like that kind of inner confidence and that understanding of what is important to you and how you go about achieving these things? And the fact I suppose I just know myself so much better now I know what I'm capable of. I know that if I need to really kind of if I need to set a goal, which is beyond my capability. I've just got to get there. And it might be that I either need to do more learning more more training. I've got to find the right people. And that's and that's a part of it. It's kind of having the right supporting cast. Maybe it's a coach, maybe it's an accountant. Maybe it's somebody who can get me there.

Pete Cohen 22:01
I would say that you are become unstoppable. There's like nothing's gonna stop me. Yeah,

Richard Chatley 22:07
I think I feel gone set. I'm

Pete Cohen 22:10
unstoppable. I won't stop Yeah, hey guys, I think you're unstoppable

Richard Chatley 22:14
airliners Yeah, I think I worry less about being stopped. Yeah, I don't know if I'm unstoppable

Pete Cohen 22:20
but you might you but you might like to find out that's a good thing. I don't know. I'm gonna find out I

Richard Chatley 22:25
do. I do get a bit caught up in thinking how can I? I do kind of physical challenges but how can I push myself how far can I go? Yeah, what will it feel like?

Pete Cohen 22:34
Don't you think that's fascinating? Because do you not think that one day you'll look back and go Yeah, you know what I I explored that what great, what great adventure to see what actually can I do? And what I find the fascinating is how people become what's what's that word? When you kind of accept the situation you kind of there's a word I think begins with an art. I'm sure it will come to me where you just think Well, that's it. I'm not talking about retirement, but it's something almost you retire to the fact that well, this is it Yeah. A lot of people kind of, don't they? What are your friends thing? I mean, how many of your friends do you meet? Hopefully they won't listen to this podcast, but how many of your friends or you people you grew up with or is or is kind of future focused and kind of um, just want to get better?

Richard Chatley 23:20
I've got some yeah, I've got some people who would probably people who are focusing in specific areas, so I've got people who are trained with way outperform me people who are doing marathons every weekend, that sort of stuff. And I'm like, they're on a different level. I've got people at work in my career Who are you know, in a kind of different phase altogether, and I'm sort of, Wow, I'm in awe of what they're doing. And I know people who kind of look after, you know, health and relationships and again, doing more that the thing I don't often see is people focusing on all of the areas at once, or at least trying to, I think, yeah, that's the thing that, to me has been my secret formula.

Pete Cohen 24:05
Yeah, the fact that these all got to be unbalanced, because if one of them is out of balance moment,

Richard Chatley 24:09
the moment your health goes wrong, work, falls just totally back in the agenda. And you see it all the time. You see people who fall fall ill, and it's an awful thing, but all of a sudden, they drop out of their career for a period of time, because the number one focus is I've got to get better. Of course it is.

Pete Cohen 24:28
Well, yeah, until you have been but then people get better and then they get comfortable and then they go back into work mode. Yeah, and then forget that and then have another heart attack. I mean, COVID was a big a big wake up call for a lot of people. For me, it was a big wake up call, actually, of a lot of the things I was doing that probably wasn't enjoying doing, but also just just that reiteration of health, that we know that so many people had comorbidities and they're not here because that and you know, I think you've probably heard me say working with Southampton hospital or the chief medical officer. You know, when I asked him how many people in this hospital are here because of lifestyle choices, and he said about 75%. So the choices that we make I think what I really, really appreciate what you've said is that being able to look back one day and go, Well, I'll put my all in. I constantly push to the edges and that was the other point I was gonna make that Napoleon Hill talked about, which if you read, Think and Grow Rich No, I'm sure you'll get round to

Richard Chatley 25:31
it. Have some great quotes from it. Yeah,

Pete Cohen 25:33
well, there's Outwitting the Devil, which is the book I would actually encourage you to read before that because what a lot of people don't know about thinking Grow Rich is that it really only be published because he outwitted himself. He wrote the book. He finished it in the late 20s. And got lured back into the corporate world and was doing well was involved in a business. Someone got away with publishing a newspaper. Someone got killed. He got a phone call saying if you're not out of here in an hour, you're going home in a casket, so he literally left went into a massive depression for years. And then every night he used to walk and then one day to stopped in his traps in his tracks and just felt he was being being hailed to something. And he just basically had a proper conversation with himself like you've written this book. You haven't published it if you don't start living these principles. You might as well burn it. So then he realized he woke up to his, what he would call his other self, his genius, right? And the book Outwitting the Devil was written it was finished in 1938. It wasn't published for 72 years, because his family just said you can't publish a book with the word devil in it. He'd been criticized anyway for thinking grow rich because he was talking about things like cosmic habit force, sexual transmutation, that, you know, you can imagine a lot of people were going you can't say that he was criticizing institutions controversial. Yeah, criticizing schools criticizing churches, which you know, and in America, you know, religion is very important, but he was talking about how institutions, institutionalized people to stop thinking for themselves and it seems like you have just kind of I think you always thought for yourself, but it seems like you've now just got a license to do that on crack without taking the crack. Because the possibilities here is trust,

Richard Chatley 27:22
isn't it? You trust yourself? Trust your judgment.

Pete Cohen 27:26
Yeah, and that's where I think I don't know what it is. But I think magic starts to happen. There is, oh, I've come up with a brilliant idea. Or, I mean, just like you said, when you came here today, and I asked you about one year, no beer. I was just telling you about something about it. And then you told me that that's how you met me because you listened to that podcast, and then it makes me think, hang on. Aren't we all just all kind of connected in some way? Just just on the on the edges, aren't we? Yeah. And I think then when you connect with people who are connecting on a similar kind of like connection, that wavelength,

Richard Chatley 27:57
isn't it? Yeah. When you get people who are thinking in a similar way?

Pete Cohen 28:01
Yeah, well, you when when we did that call recently with yourself and another person who I'd say was like our avatar, you just feel like, Oh, this guy's great, but I don't know him. I've never met him and that that's also like that in teams in some of the greatest teams. I've worked in, you know, professional sporting teams. There's very few that you walk in and you go, wow, what's going on here? This is amazing. But most of them you walk in and you think what is this? Because someone's got an ego someone thinks they're important. Someone wants to blame and complain. It's very rare that you get people coming together and go, Okay, well, what can we do? How can we help each other? What do you need? How can we do that? And that type of energy is so I don't know. It's just, it's, I don't know that to me is what life is.

Richard Chatley 28:44
That's where the magic is, isn't it?

Pete Cohen 28:47
That's when it happens. That's when it happened. Where so when does it happen? When does when when when when when does the world see the best in Richard shortly, not not at 330 in the morning, like it was this morning this morning?

Richard Chatley 29:00
When is the best I always say I'm one of those people. I'm great in a crisis. Yeah, fortunately, it doesn't happen often. But if there's a crisis, whatever's happening, I seem to kind of pull out the stops and I can then find more time more patients more resources or fix it.

Pete Cohen 29:16
Yeah, that word crisis again, you've probably heard me say that again. I didn't know but the meaning of opportunity and danger with every crisis. So for people that are listening to this podcast, what would you say to them about ambition and sacrifice and what would you like people to take away from listening to you speak?

Richard Chatley 29:39
I think we were talking about ambition early on and why I find it so kind of fascinating. Well, I'm obsessed with it and and I think I would encourage people to to nurture it. So use it. I suppose kind of respect it. Think about what your ambition is. Work out. You've got to work out kind of is it realistic for me? And have I got the sort of drive to get there because there will be sacrifice, there is work to do. There are things you'll have to stop doing. There'll be hard times you may have to change the way so have you got that kind of that drive to get over those kind of tougher stages. And and if you have really kind of worked out the plan.

Pete Cohen 30:25
So you know, that whole kind again, that hero in the beginning people start things there's that honeymoon period when we start anything but what you represent to me is it's the fight through when you don't feel like it the worse I feel, the more committed. Yeah, and that's where the great I don't know what it is. It's like when you don't feel like exercising and you do it. That to me is the greatest feeling of WoW,

Richard Chatley 30:48
because I just use that as the kind of the secret weapon now. So I always think of that, I mean, kind of taught me in the very early days. When we met if you don't feel like it, that's the best time to do it. And frequently of things pop up. I look at my to do list and I think I feel like that and it's almost like your voice in my head. That means I've got to do it now. Yeah, I've just said to myself, I don't feel like it. So actually, that is the that is the one I now have to do. Thanks. Thanks, Pete.

Pete Cohen 31:12
It's a pleasure. It's a pleasure. You know, the thing for me is that when I'm not feeling like something I will tell myself, right. Well, that's the best time but then I also think about the people around me who I've inspired I need to be an example to them, even if they can't see me. Yeah, you know, because,

Richard Chatley 31:27
you know, that's when the good things do happen they do need doing and we don't get where we want if we put them off but like you say if we just don't feel like it but but so what just just get it just do it just get it ticked off the list and then it's done.

Pete Cohen 31:42
So So what would you say to people, what's the best way for people to contact you? Is it on LinkedIn? Yeah, look me up on lick, lick, lick, lick him off on LinkedIn. look him up on LinkedIn. And also, I'm going to ask everyone who's listened to this podcast to do something which is to reach out to Richard and tell Richard Richard, this is what I've gotten out of this podcast. Because I know that you have ambition, to inspire other people to have ambition and to make that sacrifice. So I'm really interested to see where where that all turns out. Now you can't hear this sound but I'll play it anyway. Let's get ready to rumble. Oh, you did hear that you let's get ready to rumble because life is competitive. You know, it's all competitive you know and the person work um, I love competing with people like you because you just inspired me to there I'm going to be better. Not because I want to outperform you. I can't outperform you. I can only outperform myself. And, you know, thank you so much for being on the podcast. Today's pleasure. It's time to play out with the theme shoe ladies and gentlemen, this has been Richard Chatley.


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