12 Sep, 2023

Pete Cohen:

We're live. I was always going to call you Dr. Bob there

 

Ray:

Thank you.

 

Pete Cohen:

because I've got a Dr. Bob in the house, Dr. Ray. So I've got Dr. Ray and a Dr. Bob. How are you, Dr. Ray?

 

Ray:

I'm well, I'm well and Dr. Pop has left the States and is on the UK mainland, so that's exciting. Did he come from, is it Houston or Texas?

 

Pete Cohen:

It came from Houston, yeah, Houston, Texas, and he is just having a sleep now. He is one of the most intentional human beings I've ever met. And yeah, it's always great when he's here. And he, you know, he was devastated when my wife passed. I was actually quite shocked by how inconsolable he was of all the people. For those of you that are listening to this podcast for the first time, My name is Pete Cohen. This is Dr. Ray. This is the My365 podcast, and everything we do is about being intentional. And Dr. Ray and I have been on a bit of a journey. This is the 491st episode of this podcast. It's pretty, and guess who the first podcast was with? Dr. Bob.

 

Ray:

I was going to say that and I thought have you known him that long but okay Dr. Bob that's awesome.

 

Pete Cohen:

Yeah, yeah, I have. And he's here because we've got this event on Sunday, the Magnificent Health Summit. But right, let's talk about kind of where we are at the moment. And let's just review a little bit of what we're doing. Because if I was listening to this podcast, I'd be thinking, who are these people? What are they talking about? What's the big what's the big vision? Yeah, why should I pay attention? to what's going on here. And I'd just love to know what's on your heart? What are you thinking right now in terms of kind of where we are on what we're doing, where we're going?

 

Ray:

Yeah, well, we discuss it quite regularly. And I did say that I have a lot of empathy for where you are having going through this transition in the midst of grief and having devoted yourself to the professional, personal and professional development of people almost all of your life. To start to engage in. Intentionality in a new fresh way has got to be both challenging to you and those that have got used to listening to you in a space. But you've just shared with me that no, you feel completely in line with the direction. And I think it's worthy of noting that through our relationship, your focus has been towards a goal of being a people's coach. So one of the challenges here now, and we're discussing it now, is how do we break down intentionality simply for people to embrace? How do we make that just accessible to everyone? How does it become really something that people go, oh, I like that. So we know, Pete, we talk about mindful intentions, and that makes sense to us, but for the everyday person struggling with life and they're just... on default, firefighting every day. We've talked at length about how do we simplify. And that's not always easy, but I think we're gonna, as I just said to you a minute ago, we're gonna fail forward because I do believe that

 

Pete Cohen:

Yeah.

 

Ray:

there's nothing perfect in life and we're getting some great feedback. And I think the question is, how do we help people navigate their everyday?

 

Pete Cohen:

Thank you for that. I've just been making a few notes. And in terms of what you're looking for, what is it that you'd like to see happen from people that get on the bandwagon and follow us? What's your intention behind all of this?

 

Ray:

What I think is quite similar to where you are, is giving access to information, philosophies, and just support that anyone that wants to make a change, anyone that feels quite frustrated with where they are, there is normally something they can do. That obviously means feeling

 

Pete Cohen:

Hmm.

 

Ray:

empowered, and it's so easy in life for us to become disempowered, to become disenchanted. and frustrated. So my hope and aim is that in these conversations, that on some level, we support those who are on a quest for positive change in their life, positive change in their relationships. You know, I often say

 

Pete Cohen:

Yeah.

 

Ray:

taking someone from a whole, H-O-L-E to whole, W-H-O-L-E. And I think that's the question I would ask anyone who's listening to this today. Are you whole or are you

 

Pete Cohen:

Mmm.

 

Ray:

whole?

 

Pete Cohen:

Oh, I like that. I do like that. You know, obviously people will listen to this podcast, but Ray, if you just move your head a little bit to either side, the sun is right

 

Ray:

other

 

Pete Cohen:

behind

 

Ray:

son.

 

Pete Cohen:

you.

 

Ray:

Okay

 

Pete Cohen:

And it is like,

 

Ray:

cascading

 

Pete Cohen:

just move it to

 

Ray:

off

 

Pete Cohen:

your

 

Ray:

of my bald

 

Pete Cohen:

left,

 

Ray:

head.

 

Pete Cohen:

move it to your left, move your head, move your head to your left. There you go. Now the sun is really shining bright on me and This is what you've kind of done for me. You've shone a light on who I am, what I do, which is what I know you love to do with the work that you do. So you've said a few things to me recently and it just reminded me of, I was studying, I did some, I worked in the field of neuro-linguistic programming years ago. And I did the trainer training. So I did the practitioner, the master practitioner, the trainer training. And I'll never forget this guy come up to me, who I knew actually, he said something to me really profound. He said, Pete, you're really good at kind of putting on this front and having all this energy, but when are we gonna see the real you? And I remember that, it hit me really hard. And it made me just think, God, how much of an act am I actually putting on and being who I'm being? And that was a long time ago, this was in my 20s, I'm now 53. And now, you know, in being intentional, I think being intentionally myself is really where the magic is at. And if you were asking me, what do I want people to get out of coming on this journey with us, it's about, definitely that's a big part of it. intentionally being yourself, knowing who you are, knowing the value that you bring to the world and being able to stop, just like when I see the sun behind you, it forces me just to kind of stop and contemplate of where I actually am and what I'm doing. And I suppose that's what I'm I want. I want people to stop and appreciate just who you are. Maybe you are in a hole at the moment. And the goal is to be more whole, to be more yourself and to feel. that you know and you value who you are, and this is something we will talk about more as we move on, is about becoming your own best friend. But that to me is what being intentional is. It's being intentional in who you are. And I wonder, give us your perspective, Ray, on... the importance of getting to know who you are. So for those of you that maybe are listening to this for the first time, when I got to know Ray on the social media app Clubhouse, he kept saying, you've got to know who you are. And I listened, but it was only through going on this journey with you and what happened with my wife, my wife passing away. And I feel like I know who I am more than I've ever known. And I'm just curious as to what your thoughts are around that.

 

Ray:

It's a big space, so I'm going to be very mindful and intentional that I try and keep it as simple at least stated, which isn't always easy for me, so I apologize in advance. There are four things that I suggest that individuals consider. The first is, who are you? Know thyself. So we have to take a journey inward and we have to be comfortable with who we are. the good, the bad, the indifferent, simply because none of us, I don't believe in the concept of perfection. We are, as Glenn, someone else we met on Clubhouse would say, we're imperfectly perfect. But knowing self is really important. And I think what society does, particularly today, with very pervasive media networks, social media networks, expectations of each other. is to your point earlier when someone spoke to you all those years ago, is we can put a front on. And I call that front stage. So I think we're all performers and we've got a front stage and a back stage. And the front stage is our interaction, our social interaction with others. But our back stage is our internal dialogue, what we say to ourself. And I think if I was to say what we are doing here... We're encouraging people to know that there are two realms in their life and they should actually be as close together as possible, overlapping

 

Pete Cohen:

Mm.

 

Ray:

ideally, so that your backstage is consistent with what you project to others. And this is really tough for people that are in professional environments where they've got to get their energy up. So while you've spent years on TV, years working

 

Pete Cohen:

Mm.

 

Ray:

with clients... You know, we were speaking yesterday and talking about, you know, literally hundreds of people coming along to a retreat. Those people have paid money and you've got to get your energy up. So front stage becomes primary and then backstage just becomes the urgency space. Oh, and so we spend a lot of time in our backstage preparing for a performance in the front stage. And what that means if you think about that is we spend our lives trying to fulfill the expectations of others, even when they're not around. That's what we're meditating on is, are we good enough? Do we fit in? And I think for me, Pete, what we're doing here is when I say who are you, is to become comfortable with yourself, as we said, become your own best friend. And that means your backstage

 

Pete Cohen:

Hmm.

 

Ray:

has got this calm tranquility to it, and it's in synergy. It's in relationship with your social self. And if there's a big gap between the two, there normally is a challenge to someone's energy, quality of life. Some people would say, if you look at the happy hormones, happy hormones are discharged when there's a greater balance between your backstage and your front stage. And grades and degrees of cortisol and other stress-released hormones come up when you're getting yourself up for a performance. Now, let me qualify, there's nothing wrong with stress. As you stress, we need it to respond fight and flight. but we shouldn't be living under that strain 24-7. And

 

Pete Cohen:

Yeah.

 

Ray:

that's what I would say is know thyself. And once you know that, you know your value. And here's the thing, your value is to yourself backstage and your value is to others front stage. So all of a sudden now you make investments in you and you make investments in your value in exchange with others. So there's this value exchange. The principle of love, you know, when people say, do they love someone, there's all debates, what does that actually mean? But really, at the core of quality relationship, is it a value exchange? And literally at the base level, someone looks at someone else and says, I like you, and the other one says, I like you. That's an exchange of value. And once you know your value, I think where we have discussed a lot, Pete, is that they're internal. Who are you? What's your value? and they're backstage things, I think you can spend time knowing. And then your front stage

 

Pete Cohen:

Mm.

 

Ray:

is equipped to say, who do I serve? Because you can't serve everyone. So the people in your life, your family, your friends, your community, your colleagues, how do you go about serving? So who do you serve and how do you serve, the third and fourth elements. And that to me, in my experience in working with people, is really a successful. mantra, who are you, what is your value, who are you serving, and how are you serving. And if you can start to think about those, then you find when they all come together, you very much are intentional.

 

Pete Cohen:

That's just amazing what you just said there. I'm so glad that we recorded this because I think that was such a beautiful way of just unpacking a little bit about who we are together and what we're doing together and that whole thing about front stage, backstage. You have to stop, I think. I have to stop. If I really intentionally want to become aware of what's going on behind the scenes, it has to come from a stop. And what I was thinking about, Ray, is it's so easy in the world to give into temptation. It's so easy to get distracted. I mean, one of the oldest stories in the Bible, even the Lord's Prayer, lead us not into temptation. Don't eat fruit from the forbidden tree. This whole thing around... It's so easy to walk off the path. So I suppose what I love to do, and I know this is what you're about, is to help people really stop and appreciate who they are and what value they have for the world. And it's so easy to feel devalued. It's so easy through growing up and what you look at to feel that there's something not quite right with you. And we're asking people just to stop and appreciate. who you are. And then you also shine another light on that thing that you and I have spoken about, which is about serving development. I mean, personal development. It's I mean, they're just words at the end of the day, but that whole I've looked at me look what I can do. But ultimately, I want to serve the service people who want to serve others. And then the just you just shine a really bright light on that once again around. If you want to serve as best as you can. Surely you realize that when you get to know yourself and the value that you bring to the world, so you fundamentally believe from what I understand that everyone has their own unique value. They have their own, what some people would call their ownliness that only that person can do. Can you, do you believe that? Because I do, I do believe that everyone has got unique talents. Or, yeah, I'm just curious as to what your thoughts are on that and your feedback on what I just said there, because this is profound stuff.

 

Ray:

Well, yeah, let's start from the baseline that everyone is valuable. What we're talking about is people going in search of that value. And the search is not outside of themselves, it's inward. But most people are taught and society reinforces that your value is outside of yourself from the acknowledgement of a parent or a guardian or someone in your life. youngsters, you see, you watch them in their gestures, they're craving value, they're craving to be acknowledged. They go to school and the school teachers. And it's so important for us to recognize that. I think there was a school teacher called Jane Elliott, who controversially did an experiment as a school teacher the day after Martin Luther King had been tragically assassinated. And she was living in a rural part of America. and she took her classroom, which was all white children. And she being quite challenged by the assassination because there were lots of people who saw it as a season of hope and change, wanted to know what it was like for people to be treated differently, just in words. So she did an experiment, and as I've just said earlier, probably, not probably, she would be struck off now, but she started to treat the kids with... blue and green eyes differently from the kids with brown eyes. And either the former group was given praise or they were challenged because of those distinguishing physical features. And what she discovered has changed the course of her life, but actually is really powerful for anyone. And some people who say, listen to this may want to choose to embrace it or not. But going back to your question, everyone's valuable. What happens when someone intentionally tries to take your value away. She discovered that kids start to perform less well in school, their confidence levels go down, their perception of self goes down, and it brings quite a degree of psychological and emotional challenge, which then leads into impacting a child's behavior. That's really profound, Pete, that actually... All of us here should take stock that what we receive from others has a big impact on us, which is why, go back to my original point before, if our sole purpose is to be liked and accepted by others and we spend our backstage time investing in preparing to be accepted by others, there's a challenge. And there's a really fine nuanced line. I believe the backstage is you're preparing. to share value with others. But the value that you know that you uniquely have, as Martin Neumann says, your onlyness. And your onlyness means that

 

Pete Cohen:

Mm.

 

Ray:

there isn't anyone else in the world that was born exactly the same time as you and looks like you. And I'm sure someone might be listening and believes in the conspiracy of doppelgangers. But let's just perceive we are all unique. And if we're all uniquely valuable. We should get excited. Let's start the journey inward. Let's all go on our own treasure hunt to find who we are. And I want to, because here's the thing, a bit like we've discussed before, I do think that we get caught up by default in a world that tells us we're not good enough, and therefore we have to get acknowledgement from the world to say we're important. And I always arrive at this in these podcasts, whether we have one person listening to this. who feels that this is providing some insight. I'm delighted. I'm not sitting here talking to you because I desire a million people to listen to us. Even though if that's the journey that we

 

Pete Cohen:

Mm.

 

Ray:

end up on, we can look back on this podcast of 491 and smile because we're trying to serve those who know there's something more than they've currently got.

 

Pete Cohen:

You know, I've obviously observed you and listened to you for many hours, which has just been just a real privilege just to learn from you and to just to stop. To stop. And when you were talking about backstage, what's going on? I gave a talk at a school the other day, which was, which was lovely. It was a beautiful, all the teachers and the support staff and some young people that are coming in who've left school to help out. And I was speaking really from the heart, just in terms of my experience of being at school and wanting recognition, wanting to be accepted, feeling that I was not good enough. Like, because I was kind of almost taken out and shown that I wasn't good enough by being diagnosed as dyslexic and just always having so much energy that I was told, you know, sit down, be still, do as you're told. Like so many of us have been brought up in a world like that where we're looking for validation. outside of ourselves and I was constantly looking for it. I probably didn't realize at the time, but I looked back and realized through all the things I did, being on television and all those things, working with people, it was always, I didn't enjoy it as much as I could have because I was looking for something outside of myself rather than appreciating actually who I am and what I'm doing. and seeing that value. And I do appreciate that when we have these conversations, how insightful it might be for other people, but I wondered what you thought Ray, because what I see in people is the fear of going inside, the fear of, and this is my interpretation of what I see with a lot of people. There is this fear of stopping because it's not normal. It's not something which most people do to kind of stop and switch off and detach and just be with yourself. but then concerned about what they're going to find. And I remember thinking like that. I used to get headaches when I used to go and do this kind of personal development work of what I might find out about myself. But I realized that was almost stuff that I just picked up along the way. It wasn't the real essence of who I really am. Everything else was just stuff I've picked up. But through growing up, trauma and all the experience, but realizing... If you do that work and you can go beneath some of that stuff, you can really tap into the essence of who I am and who you are and who we all are. And I just wondered what your take on that is. I almost like to say to people that you don't need to be frightened of going inside. You've survived. You've got to this point in your life. Well done. Maybe there's some stuff that maybe you need to address and think about and deal with. But... Beneath all of that, there is something truly magical about you. What's your thoughts on that Ray? I think you're muted. Not literally muted, but you have muted yourself.

 

Ray:

Thank you, I did mute myself. Sorry about that.

 

Pete Cohen:

That's right. Don't

 

Ray:

There's

 

Pete Cohen:

worry.

 

Ray:

lots of really

 

Pete Cohen:

That's all

 

Ray:

good

 

Pete Cohen:

right.

 

Ray:

bits there. The thing that really resonated with me, and I think this is really kind of key, is that we accumulate social experiences. So if you think in our front stage, we accumulate social experiences. And this is what I'm saying, if we leave our backstage dormant and non-intentional, then the front stage informs our backstage. And that's what Jane Elliot found out with these kids.

 

Pete Cohen:

Hmm.

 

Ray:

These kids had never had trauma before and suddenly she created trauma by saying, you're worthy and valuable because you've got blue eyes. Oh no, you're valuable because you've got brown eyes. Or no, you're not valuable at all. And basically we are to a large extent impacted by our social front stage. And I'm saying that in of itself is the weakness because you might be listening to this and it doesn't matter what your occupation is. It doesn't matter what your health status is right at this moment. It doesn't matter whether you've had trauma as you're going through the trauma of loss. Ultimately, you need to spend time in the backstage so that you look at the trauma, the triggers and look at the world we live in today, Pete. It is completely divided. I can think of some TV presenters in the UK. I'm based in the US and I watch in the UK and then I look at things in the US. and it's got a very similar theme. Someone comes on and they literally support a position, which is a front stage position, and then everyone goes, yep, I swallow that. And it's concerning because we should be able to celebrate each other and know that others have different value propositions. Whether you're a man or a woman, it shouldn't matter on that. through socialization, front stage, we've ended up with society where in most of modern society we will see that women are paid, there's a pay gap. And it's an uncomfortable truth. No one knows how to deal with this truth. But the way I would explain it is that the front stage has been performing at a way so much, society has been structured and shaped so much that it impacts everyone's. backstage and it even impacts, doesn't matter what your gender is, it impacts how we see each other. Who gets paid to get jobs, who gets promoted. It is changing and that's great news, but it's an example of how life can just roll over us. And I think what we're trying to do here is say, well enough already, what about slowing down and spending a bit

 

Pete Cohen:

Mm.

 

Ray:

time looking at your uniqueness, looking at who you are, wherever you are. You and I have spoken before about Viktor Frankl, but you know, I can't, there's very few people I think of that sit in that pool being exposed to the absolute... unthinkable trauma

 

Pete Cohen:

most

 

Ray:

of being

 

Pete Cohen:

horrible

 

Ray:

in concentration,

 

Pete Cohen:

sit here. Yeah, just horrendous.

 

Ray:

and then discerning and writing a thesis and becoming a recognized psychologist in this space, and saying, well, actually, life is dependent upon meaning. So what he was really saying is, it doesn't matter how horrendous your life is, and there are lots of examples of horrendous acts, you have the responsibility. to add meaning to who you are. And when I look at, I mentioned Martin Luther King being assassinated, but anyone can critique anyone, but at the core of his backstage was, I want to try and make a difference. And his value was the creed of his faith of nonviolence, but change through nonviolence. What a paradox that is. What do you mean nonviolence? We're not gonna get angry, we're gonna just sit in. an ice cream parlor where we've been told we're not supposed to sit front stage, but actually we know that our backstage, we have value and we should be there. And it changed that society forever. And that's what I'm saying. And let me qualify, I'm not calling for revolution here beyond the one that you have in yourself. But I prefer the term evolution, that you are looking to evolve from

 

Pete Cohen:

Mm.

 

Ray:

being defined by your front stage. and saying, well, I have to love and respect the front stage because that's where I interact with others. But I can only do that meaningfully by having a balance between who I am and how I go about serving and showing up in life.

 

Pete Cohen:

Well, I've got a stop sign here. So obviously you can see that, but

 

Ray:

Yep.

 

Pete Cohen:

you can all imagine of actually having a stop light, a stop sign, neon light being made for me at this moment in time. Because I would like everyone to stop for a moment, maybe listen back to what Ray just said and just ask, would you like to be a part of that evolution? You must be if you're listening to this, you know, otherwise you would have switched off. You wouldn't be listening at this point because you just think, well, maybe this isn't for me. So. And this is something that Ray and I have spoken about, you know, when you do a podcast, how long should it be? Because who's really listening, you know, who's really listening and understand that listening to anything for this period of time, you know, this is nearly half an hour of your time and Ray and I are figuring stuff out and we could have these conversations without recording a podcast, but I'm, I'm happy because I know that this, this will be out in the world. And when I'm not here, people might listen to this and the evolution of myself.

 

Ray:

Yeah.

 

Pete Cohen:

But what I love about you Ray is that when you talk about meaning, as Victor Frank called, you know, the meaning of life, and I, my perception of the meaning of life, or it's the meaning you give it. And what meaning are you giving your life? And when you talk to what I loved what you said at the beginning when you talked about whole and hold. And there are many different holes we can fall into in life through many challenges that we face. Because living in the modern world, it's not straightforward. There are many challenges that people have. I mean, there's just so many to list, isn't there? In terms of bringing up a family, having a job, paying the bills, being healthy. I mean, it's hard. It's a lot easier when you've got people around you who support you, which is what Martin Luther King said as well, that the most important question we should be asking each other is, what can we do for each other? You know, you were talking about, actually, I was telling you about that the Michael Hyatt book I'm reading at the moment, where he talks about the brain, the way humans are very primitive, there's a primitive part of us of survival. But there's also this he talks about the beehive part of us, which is where this we're a hive. We're all one we're all a collective and I like the idea of people working together coming together and finding meaning in this world that we're in and I'm if you if you one of those people that you just listen to what Ray just said maybe go back and listen again And if honestly if you're just one of those people you think yeah, that's me. He's talking to me I'm one of those people and I want to find more meaning in who I am and I want to enjoy the backstage of me. Then just let us know because we definitely want to support people in that way. What are your thoughts on that Ray?

 

Ray:

Well, as you were speaking, Pete, and just to qualify for, we've just done two, we've just spent 2% of our day with each other here on this podcast. And in crude terms, Pete and I have been talking and I shared a concept with Pete some months back now and we've been working out how do we integrate it in here. And I've sat on a lot of concepts and Pete has said, well, Ray, why haven't you shared these before? And there just wasn't the time. There was a lot of... busyness, a beautiful wife, four kids, moving to a new country. There's plenty there, but there are many people that may one day be listening or may listen to this that I've had interactions with and it feels right to share those now. So intentionally, 14 minutes and 24 seconds is 1% of your day, but let's not even complicate it. Let's just say 15 minutes, ballpark, is 1% of your day. We've just spent half an hour, 31 minutes and 40 seconds. 2% of the day and I'd love to get feedback. And I know Pete, we're contemplating now, our podcast will be 1%, 15 minutes, thereabouts, a 2% podcast, that'll be 30 minutes, a 3%, 45 minutes, and then as Pete has been carrying out interviews, there may actually be a 4%, maybe even a 5%, a 75 minute one, or a 6%.

 

Pete Cohen:

Hahaha

 

Ray:

But what we're gonna do is make sure that you know. what it's gonna be so that when you come in to listen, it may be that you've got 15 minutes and quite a few people have said to me in the feedback, oh, I'm halfway through or I'm a quarter way through or I've listened to the first 10 minutes. Well, we wanna be intentional and reflect and provide you with that. And I think it's important to share that Pete and I think I'm excited about the prospect. It will take some discipline, intentionality on our side, but then that's what makes it authentic. If we can't step up to the plate, as they would say in the States, and give people our intention of a one, two, three, four, five percent, then it means someone can look at their life and go, do I have 1% of my day to give? And if they do, then wonderful. If they don't, they can leave it. But we want people to be really responsible and responsibility. is your ability to respond. That's it. We want you to develop your ability to respond instead of feeling that life just hits you and takes over.

 

Pete Cohen:

So why don't we end the podcast here today with you having spent 2% of your day or just a little bit over with us as we refine what we're doing together. I think what I loved about today was just about that whole, the whole that you have and maybe part of that whole is what's going on in the backstage and starting to appreciate your value. So why not take some time out? Why not stop and think, what is the value that I bring to the world? Because we would love to know as we... we evolve all of us together as we explore the many possibilities that we all have to impact the world that we're in. And Ray, I really appreciate, sometimes I feel like I'm in therapy when I'm talking to you, but it's only because it is very therapeutic, you know, to stop. And I wonder if you just had any final words before we get close to the 3%, Mark.

 

Ray:

Well, thank you for your time again today. It works both ways, Pete. I've learned in my life that my balance comes from having meaningful conversations and engagements, but they center around us trying to turn up each day a little bit better than we were yesterday. And sometimes that's not always easy, but we also learn how to forgive ourselves and forgive others so that... We are always

 

Pete Cohen:

Mm.

 

Ray:

trying to look up. Otherwise we can spend so much of our time in downward spirals. And anyone listening, if you can relate to that, then this is what we're about, is to equip you. And there are some change makers out there, Pete. I did wanna close on this, because I think it would be important. I'd love you to share a little bit about a very close friend of yours and someone I've got to know through you, who did an incredible feat in Wales recently. and I just wanted to

 

Pete Cohen:

Yeah.

 

Ray:

give her some props.

 

Pete Cohen:

Yeah, so I'll just mention that, but also just want to say we'd love to hear from you. And one of the best ways for you to connect with us is on LinkedIn. We will be doing some LinkedIn live audios, which will allow you to come and interact with us because we want to learn from you. But yeah, I mean, look, we're all in this story making business, right? That's what we are. And Ray is referring to a lady called Mandy Jane Lace, who is just a phenomenal lady, spent the majority of her life in a wheelchair. and she was pronounced dead twice with COVID. But there's something about this person. She just, you know, death just could not, couldn't take her out. It wasn't her time. And she was in hospital and I was talking to her and she could barely breathe. And I thought, she was going, I've got to get, Cardi, you're vascularly fit. And I was thinking, I don't think you're gonna make the end of the day. I really was thinking that. And boy, did she completely define the odds. um, defy the odds because, uh, the other day she completed a marathon in a hand cycle going around and it is a bicycle that you use your, your arms, um, to, to raise awareness of, uh, inclusion. Her whole thing is about inclusion. And that's where you and I, Ray, we're all about. Everyone has got a place at the table. In fact, if there's, there's a place at the table, it's like, well, who's not here. Everyone, everyone has a space and that's what she's dedicated her life to. And in, in ways that just to. just so many ways and it was just great to be there with her. We did a video, we filmed her and she's very intentional and we want to shine a light on people that are doing great things. So thank you for bringing that to our attention, Ray, and sharing that with our followers. So I appreciate you, my friend. I wish you a wonderful, wonderful day. You've still got a few hours ahead of me. But thank you so much once again.

 

Ray:

No, it's been a pleasure as always and a delight and a great way. I know you guys have just had a bank holiday. Although this will go out later. We are going into what they call Labor Day

 

Pete Cohen:

Labor Day.

 

Ray:

in America. So Monday, the 4th of September is a Labor Day. So I've got a long weekend this weekend.

 

Pete Cohen:

Good, 2.5%, I think this podcast has been. But we really

 

Ray:

Awesome.

 

Pete Cohen:

want you to start thinking about what you do with your time. We will see you next time. Thank you for listening. We'll see you soon.

 

Ray:

Take care.