25 Jan, 2024Interview with Dale Wyatt
“Who we are is how we lead. Self-awareness, kindness, vision, accountability, trust, just basic skills of being a good human being to other human beings.” – Brené Brown
Are you in the most difficult season of your life right now? Are you grieving? Has someone close to you been diagnosed with a life-threatening illness? Are you someone who wants to lead but does not know how to?
If you answer yes to any of these questions, then we urge you to listen to today’s episode. My guest, Dale Wyatt, and I will be unveiling our vulnerable raw selves as we share with you our experiences in overcoming the most difficult seasons in our lives.
We hope to give you insights as you relate to our stories. We will also delve into the significant components of trust along with how you can be an exceptional leader, as exceptionally exemplified by Dale Wyatt.
He is a remarkably close friend and an inspirational leader. He has been the Director of Suzuki Cars UK for 15 years and has driven the company to success.
We want to help you conquer the challenges you are facing. We know that being intentional is difficult to do, especially if you are in turmoil. That is why we encourage you to reach out to us.
You can make a difference with the talents you have within you.
Be who you were meant to become.
~ Love is a process and not a destination.
~ Grief is an experience you must allow yourself to feel for it is not an event you can control.
~ Beneath all our flaws and insecurities lies the essence of who we truly are.
~ Trust, listen, link, learn, leverage, and love are the important tenets of leadership.
~ The three elements of trust are motive, reliability, and capability.
Ways to overcome challenges:
- Lean into something difficult.
- Find humour.
- Reframe mindset.
- Do good and massive things.
- Cherish the moments with those you love.
- Listen more to the ones who are about to leave.
- Simplify life.
- Do not waste time.
~ 2:46 How Dale Wyatt and I met.
~ 5:53 Dale Wyatt‘s devastating experience.
~ 7:32 Refusing to be defined by an ill-fated diagnosis.
~ 13:15 How Dale and I are dealing with grief and trauma.
~ 18:17 Self-rediscovery after the loss of a loved one.
~ 22:45 Reframing the mindset to battle Parkinson’s Disease.
~ 25:07 Moving on from negative experiences and sharing the love.
~ 35:48 What to do and tell the people around terminally ill patients.
~ 39:25 Other things you can do after experiencing a loss.
~ 43:38 Changes in my message.
~ 45:50 How to be a better leader.
~ 51:15 Trust and its three elements.
Send us a message and tell us what is your biggest takeaway about this episode. 👇🏼👇🏼👇🏼
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About Pete Cohen: Pete Cohen is one of the world’s leading life coaches and keynote speakers. Hundreds of thousands of people from all over the world have been motivated and inspired by Pete’s presentations. He has professionally impacted the lives of thousands of people worldwide, including business executives, professional athletes, and everyday people. Pete focuses on the importance of closing the gap in our lives between where we are and where we want to be, both personally and professionally.
It’s then all about coaching you to remove the obstacles that are in your way and helping you install the habits of success.
Pete is the author of 20 published books, several of which have been best-sellers across the world, including Shut the Duck Up, Habit Busting, Life DIY, and Sort Your Life Out. He has also presented his own show on TV called The Coach and was the resident Life Coach on GMTV for 12 years.
Happy beautiful day. It is the Mi365 podcast with myself and Dr. Ray. Today's podcast is a very special interview with Dale Wyatt.
Dale is a personal friend of mine. He's also an inspirational leader, but he has also been through something very challenging in his life recently,
just like I have. And he was there for me, and I was there for him through one of the most difficult and darkest and challenging experiences. of our life. And in the interview,
we talk all things dealing with grief, trust and being an exceptional leader. I'll see you with Dale after the theme tune. (upbeat music) Right,
we're live. - Great. - Dale. - Pink. - Finally, this is really happening. - At last. - At last, yeah. I've been wanting to get you in front of this microphone for quite a while,
but I think the time is definitely, the time is right. right. - Tell them where we are Pete, tell them what's happening. - Well, we wanted to spend some time together and I said, "Where should we go?" And we've ended up coming 10 minutes from your house,
but we're staying in a beautiful place. Where exactly are we? - We're in Castle Ashby, we're in the Falcon Hotel in Castle Ashby, a wellness retreat. And we talked about just getting away and having us some stop time together,
sharing our experiences. - Yeah. and we talked about where we could go And how do we ten minutes away from a house? But I think it's ideal here. It is ideal We had a an interesting night last night. It was emotional.
There was a lot of tears. I wasn't expect I don't know. I wasn't really expecting anything, but that's a contradiction I probably wasn't expecting to get as emotional as I did yesterday because you and I have been through Some very difficult Times recently have we not?
Yeah, we have it was intense last night. I mean, I think we both... I was thinking what it would look like for someone to have watched us two guys crying in the corner. I think they would have thought it was a gay breakup or something.
Well, it was definitely not a breakup. It was definitely us coming together and just, I don't know, you've been super helpful for me in so many ways, which we'll talk about. There's lots of things we're going to talk about.
Who knows how long this podcast is going to be? It'll be as long as it... it is. But you know what, the first thing is I just have to say thank you for your friendship and what was interesting is tell us the story of how we met.
Yeah, I was running a brand immersion event. I was looking for a motivational speaker and I met you and I remember watching you deliver your content. You had the challenge of delivering the same content about six times in the same day and staying fresh with it.
And you, you were just coming back to work. You've been away looking after Hannah. Yeah. And I remember watching you and I thought, I've got to watch this guy again. And I watched you about four or five times over two days. Which I was really impressed with.
I've never seen any leader or any business who has got me to come in and speak to watch me at numerous times. What, what, what was it about what I was doing that made you want to keep listening?
I wanted to get it and I wanted to see the end. you had on the room and I wanted to just watch the power of the future self. You were talking about the future self, you were talking about it and the incredible thing for me was how in a 15 minute,
20 minute session you connect with somebody, people start thinking differently about their lives and I thought I can learn from this and I wanted to watch you deliver and I wanted to watch your audience and I wanted to do it in different different phases.
I don't understand the concept. and I want to understand the way you deliver it and I want to understand the way people receive it. So I broke it down into three different ways to watch you at work, Pete. Well, when I arrived,
we'd spoken on the phone, when we arrived, it was one of those nights, it was like seven o 'clock, I thought, "I'm ready for bed because I get up ridiculously early and I got a message saying you wanted to meet me." And I was like,
"Oh, really? I'm just about to go to bed." I heard that voice in my head, but then I voice said look you take this opportunity to meet this meet this person and I was so pleased I remember where we sat down and we started talking and then you said to me yesterday you said That quite quickly you you thought yourself right here's a friend for life Yeah,
yeah, I said to you that at the end of the event if you remember you've made a friend Pete Yeah, and I didn't mean a casual friend. I meant a friend and when I make a friend I commit and I commit to you because I knew that you'd be a good friend.
I also watched how you were with Louis, Louis who worked with me for four years, he still doesn't work with me for time to time and just a young boy and I just saw how you kind of took him under your wing and I could see there was something unique about what you were doing and I realised that you're the leader who leads with love,
right? Yeah, yeah and love's a verb. verb. It's a doing word. And I think people think love is an emotion. And if you want to lead with love, you've got to do and lead it,
and it's an active word. - There's a mic drop moment just there for everyone who's listening to think it love is something, it's not a destination, you know, it's a process.
- Yeah, I think love is the selfish promotion of the growth and wellbeing of the other. - Hmm. It's focused on the wishing the best of somebody else. Yeah,
and it's interesting how our lives have paralleled. You know, I don't know whether it was all just meant to be, I think it is. I think we were destined to meet and we were destined to help each other because both of us this year have had an extremely challenging year.
Do you want to just give us a little bit of a background as to what's happened for you this year? Yeah, I mean, I've been on a similar path to you, Pete, in that my wife passed away in August.
Your wife passed away in May, was it May or June? May 19th, yeah. Yeah. And so I'm living the same experience as you, but three months behind. So you're six months into being a functioning widow.
Yeah. And I'm three months in. So I think it's been interesting. for us to kind of share our journey. And I supported you during the last few months. And you supported me during the last few months.
Yeah, it was interesting. Yeah, I thought Kerry wasn't going to be around as long as she did. I thought she would have gone before Hannah, but Kerry and Hannah who never met would definitely very alike in so many ways.
When we started talking, you talked about where we are, right? This beautiful place. But where we are is not who we are. And when this was all happening, I remember you saying to me,
"We have to go through this because we have to help others." And this is part of that because there will be people listening to this who will relate to it. There'll be people here who will face something similar to what we've faced.
And we want to pay it back, right? But definitely, definitely. I mean, I mean, I think I'm mentally resilient, mentally strong. And I know how tough it is. And two grown men crying in a public space last night shows how tough it is.
And it's raw. And I can reframe situations. This isn't something you can fix. This is something you've gotta live, Pete. - Which is definitely something we can talk about.
But you said something amazing about Kerry. Kerry yesterday with her diagnosis and what she said on the back of that. That really just kind of, wow, what an amazing lady.
Can you tell our listeners what she said when she was given that diagnosis? - Yeah, she was given the diagnosis that she was terminally ill and there was no cure and she would die. She had a rare form of cancer called carcinocercoma and nobody's lived through it.
And I would think, wow, how do you take that? How do you take that news? There is no chance you will die. She said somebody will break that rule. I'm going to be that one in that one in a million, a thousand, a trillion. I'm going to be that person.
And that sounds like the person that that's who she was, right? Yeah, that was a mindset. A mindset was and if I'm wrong, at least I'll have lived life a life of hope rather than a life of fear.
You know, if we ended the podcast. here, that would be a good place to end it, not that we're going to just for people to think about that mindset. And it was the same, you know, with Hannah, you know, when Hannah was originally diagnosed,
while there were so many things I loved about her, but one thing she was much better at me at, she could get upset about something, but she wouldn't stay down for very long, she just had this, she would turn things around very quickly.
And she also made the decision of the diagnosis. where she was was not going to define her. What was going to define her was who she would become. And I was just amazed by that.
You know, when she was ready to delve into a world outside of the convention, you know, I fell in love with her because I wasn't even, you know, I didn't think this was the woman I was going to spend the rest of my life with.
I liked her, but I fell in love with her due to the way that she just, I thought this is, I've never seen her. anything like it what did you fall in love with her ability to lean into something that was so difficult and her sense of humor because we just laughed and laughed and laughed in the most difficult and most challenging circumstances in fact when she passed away as you know i went on a bit of a road trip
and i went to america and i went to the basinsi clinic where where she was treated and there were people there who didn't know how to had passed away who remembered her from 2011 and remembered who she was because of who she was,
not because of where we were. And I look back and I'm so amazed that the impact that she had on people and she was just a quiet, a pretty quiet person.
And it was the same with Kerry, right? And you told me at the dealer conference that you were just at all these people that knew Kerry were coming up and crying. Yeah, Kerry was pure.
She was selfless. Yeah. And she radiated love. Yeah. Yeah,
it's the same. Everything about Hannah was just love. Everything. Everything. And we'll see you in the next video. you meet somebody like that, who doesn't have a grey side,
a dark side, they just really love. It's a powerful thing to experience. And they touch you and they touch others. Yeah. You know, I saw her,
you know, we talk about, you know, when you're vulnerable and you show the world who you really are, all you can see, all I can say is just this love. love. And everything else is just,
pardon my French, in most cases, just a load of bollocks at the fronts that we put on. And I put on a front for so much of my life through my own insecurity. And Hannah was just,
and it's such a hard thing to live without. I'm really struggling to live without that love. Yeah, that unconditional love. That rock,
that certainty in your life. You and I live adventurous lives, Pete. We get to travel, we get to meet lots of people. And we always had that backstop, that person that you knew had your back, that you knew was waiting for you.
And you knew you could talk to in a lonely night in a hotel. And you knew you could be just you with, with no filter. So how long did this go on for in terms of of when Kerry became ill and was it quite a while?
- Yeah, well, Kerry had breast cancer and was treated for a protrusion for a successful day. And then she developed cancer in the womb. And we had a two year process of knowing that the journey was fixed.
The destination was not a good one. But adopting that one in mindset and working our way through it. - I remember saying to Kerry, what should we do? do? "Whatever we want to do,
we can do it. "Let's create a bucket list of things to do." And Kerry just wanted to experience life. She felt at ease. She felt comforted. She wasn't looking for anything else. She wanted to just be around the family.
She wanted to just enjoy living the life she had, which in turn is great to be that content. I think if it was me, I'd create a bucket list of other people I want to see, the things I want to experience, things I want to do. Kerry had all of that and was centered centered.
Just why I wanted to live her life enjoying her friends and family around her in a contented way. I think all too often we're searching for something that's there, right around us, Pete. You've got everything you need right here,
right where you are now. - It was all, it was all there. I realized that as well. Everything I wanted, everything I needed, it was all there. And I know we talked yesterday about regret and it's like,
there's no point having regret. For me, it's not about it's not really about regret. It's just wishing I could have done things differently. I suppose that is regret.
But I don't know. It's it's been, I mean, let's talk a little bit about grief, because grief is something that you said some very profound things yesterday about grief.
You can't, you have to live it, you have to experience it. Tell us some of your thoughts on that. I'm an intentional guy and I created a plan for myself which I think is helping,
which was around doing things that I know are going to serve me well. So I stay fit, I stay social, I embrace the outdoors. I do good work with good people.
And if I'm feeling bad, I know that I can still do good in the world. And through doing that, you get moments of joy. But grief isn't a process. It's not something you can manage, control, it's an experience.
And it comes to you in waves of unexpected times and triggers from different places. It can be music, a thought, a song, a word. And for me, kindness drives it. Whenever people are calling to me.
or say kind things about Kerry, that's a trigger. And it's an experience, Pete. It's not a process. I don't think you can manage it. You can suppress it.
You can control it, but it's not a razor, but it is indelible. - So for you, it's been something you've got to allow yourself to feel it,
to feel those emotions. emotions. - Yeah, yeah, and we know the change cycle is about denial, blame, uninformed optimism, and then meaningful change or regression back to denial,
blame, or uninformed optimism. And I think I'm approaching that T -junction now where I'm beginning to move into the real stage of grief where you can work things through. - I think I've been in a bit of denial about that process because I think is that the same for everyone?
You know, all those five stages of grief and I'm sure for some people, maybe they're not, but the reality is I think I've felt all of those different emotions. I'd like to think I haven't felt angry,
but I probably have. But it has been something which is very hard to define. And yeah, the triggers. But I think also something we discussed yesterday,
which was just how trauma. So I've done a fair bit of work looking at trauma. I've always been interested in it. And I just found out the other day that the word trauma comes from the word a wound.
And we have been wounded in terms of what we've been through, not just the loss, but what we've been through. For you, what, seven years? Yeah. For me,
11 years. Just that. that of everything that went on. And I didn't even realise that trauma was there until Hannah was re -diagnosed. And then I remembered, "Oh my God,
I've been living in trauma. If she had called me at any time, I would immediately react traumatically to I think that something had happened." Yeah. And I had time to prepare for this.
I prepared a plan. I did all of the things I needed to do. And I think I went through denial and blame and guilt. I went straight through denial and blame and guilt. I thought, okay, she's gone. Yeah, I've got this.
I've prepared for this. Yeah, let's let's execute the plan. Yeah. It doesn't work that way. Yeah. Yeah. What, what, why, what have you found out that in terms of you tried,
you had a plan? What was the reality of that? The reality is that and there are times that will just grab you. Irrespective of your behaviors, behaviors, irrespective of who's around you,
there are times when it will just consume you. And you've got to accept that, not give in to it. So we talked about, when we were asking you, have you ever been sad for a whole day? Have you ever curled up in a day and given in?
And neither have I sad. We've both admitted to being down for a whole day. - A few hours, you know, maybe throughout a day, but we're very good at changing our states and knowing what it takes.
But you've chosen to be, loving, you've chosen to be kind. How are you living on the back, apart from allowing yourself to experience what you are experiencing? What sort of life choices are you making?
- I'm doing good work with good people. - Yeah. - And I'm actively looking for people that I think I can help and finding ways to support them behind the scenes in a gentle way.
But I think sometimes, often in time, you see somebody that just a phone call, just to reach out, can create a new relationship and you can have value to somebody's life. So I try to do that when I can. - I still feel like someone said this to me,
I can't remember who it was, but they said, "A part of you has died." And I didn't get that for a couple of hours. And I thought, "Yeah, they're right. "A part of me has died. "A part that was married to Hannah in the physical form." And more...
that part of me. Is that something you relate to? - Yeah, I think whenever you have that deep relationship with somebody, you're soul's merge.
- Yeah. - And I think a bit of me isn't not there anymore. - Yeah, and now rediscovering who you are without that person.
Is that the journey that you're on now? - Yeah, it is because I'm... realized that my why was Kerry. - Yeah, but when you say that, what do you mean she was your why? - Family was the thing that was most important,
and she was the person that had the family together. - Yeah. - So I know that my state was affected by Kerry's state. I was resilient,
but Kerry was feeling an emotion, so was I. because we're that connected. So knowing that that person has that much power over your own emotional state.
In the living world is one thing, but when they're not there, the power of that is difficult. Well, I met your daughter yesterday and what an amazing lady she is,
and at the funeral your children were just unreal. They were stoic and you can really see the influence that you both had on your children. What was that like for you to see?
I mean, it's a strange thing to say to share that with your children because you wouldn't want them to go through that. Yeah, I was I was proud. I was proud because they said the things they wanted to say,
said them out loud. Yeah, they did, didn't they? And I think having the courage to do it is something that I was proud of. But I know they look back and they all feel good about the send -off they gave their mum. - Yeah.
- So yeah, I was, it was a good funeral. - Yeah. - We called it a funner room. - It was similar to, you know, Hannah's,
you know, it was fun, you know, it was a send -off. I recorded loads of people talking about Hannah. - Yeah. I didn't record it. I got other people too. So I haven't watched any of this. And,
you know, there will come a time because I want to keep her spirit alive forever. I want everybody to know her. But I realise that I just have to slow down and have a bit more time and faith.
And how has this changed you? I think one of the things that I've learned is that... that I'm a bit gentler. Yeah, I'm a bit less forceful and I've got That humbleness that virginity that weakness is a super parapet.
Yeah, you know, I've got Parkinson's as well. So the combination of Parkinson's in the and the degradation of your your body on a daily basis that physical and cognitive cognitive decline and Grief together have changed me.
And as one bit drops off, I kind of create a new, I find a new thing to boat on. And I find that I'm better,
I'm more effective, I'm more powerful, I'm less. It's crazy, isn't it? The peeling back of the stuff that we, that we don't need, and humbled by Parkinson's disease,
humbled by the loss of your wife, like just getting down to the nitty -gritty of who you are, and you are without doubt one of the most loving, kind,
human of any of all the people I've ever met. And when, as you know, I talk about you so often, especially when I'm doing any work with any leaders, say, you need to listen to this person,
because, yeah, you definitely lead in a very, very unique way. I'll give you an example, Pete. We were walking this morning and we walked through the country and we arrived in the field and there was sheep.
I remember saying, "Good morning, sheep. Welcome, welcome to a brand new day. Hello." We were full of energy and the sheep ran away. Then on the way back, we stopped and just stood by the fence and the sheep came to us. We said nothing. We were just in silence.
Remember, all the sheep were coming. We were part of their environment. that accepted us because we joined them on their terms. Yeah, and we were soft and loving and it's just an energy that I've realised that is far more powerful than who can shout the loudest.
Yeah, I think the phrase a little branch out, am I scaring the sheep when you're on stage full power, full of energy, being Pete Cohen, being Dale White, being the leader. Yeah. enthusing and running,
getting yourself in a mode. Am I scaring the sheep is an interesting little. - Is anyone really listening to me? So talk to me a little bit about Parkinson's,
because again, I can't imagine that that has been or is particularly easy, it must be challenging. - Yeah, I was diagnosed with Parkinson's six years ago and my first thought was it's not gonna change me.
It does change you. because your body deteriorates and I do all the right things and it's still deteriorating. But yes so for me it was a bit of a shock but I remember the moment when I had to reframe Parkinson's was I was I was thinking I might go on and do a big job and and the job was was in the wings and the job disappeared the minute that the employer knew that I had Parkinson's Parkinson's I'm unemployable.
Yeah. Is this it? I'm not am I now an employee if I'm honest about my physical and cognitive decline Am I done? I'm an employer but an employer and then I thought actually I'm not unemployable.
I'm unsacrable. Yeah, I'm unsacrable. I'm a protected species. I can use my new found job security Yeah, I can use the power of Parkinson's to do all those things that I was too scared to do and there's a word that's called unshakable,
which is a combination of the two, which means impossible to weaken or get rid of and I view Parkinson's as an unwanted hitchhiker, it's coming along for the ride, I can't get rid of it, I can't let it out,
it's got to be a passenger but it's coming on my terms and that reframe moment was important for me because it gave me wings, it gave me power. And that switch from being unemployable to unshakable was a mindset change,
to unshakable, impossible to weaken or get rid of. See, I think that's who you are, or part of who you are, you are the reframer. Give you any situation, you will reframe it.
And how is Parkinson's helped you see who you really are? I think it gives you a different perspective on time.
There's a ticking clock. It makes you want to grab every moment. It wants you to not worry about the niche here, not worry about the fluff. Do good stuff and do big things. Simplify your life. And don't waste any moment.
That's the key thing. So when we talk about where to from here, which is one of your... your things that I love, it always makes me think, "Where am I going from here,
from what I am experiencing?" As you and I have discussed, being intentional, but when you find yourself in a place where it's really difficult and you don't know what to do,
life is in turmoil. What you do. And for me, in the example with Hannah, I went from there to a place where it's really where I knew where I was,
but I started to have some control. So I was able to start doing things to take care of the situation when I knew that she was dying, and then she died, and having to do all these things.
I didn't enjoy doing the things that just had to be done. I was kind of going through the motions, and then at some point, I woke up to the reality of, well, who do I want to be on the back of where I've been? And that's...
that's still very much work in progress. And part of that is definitely being more loving, being more kind, encouraging more people to stop and appreciate where they are,
and also for people to look at where they are as the opportunity to become more than they currently are. What about you? Who do you want to be on the back of what you've experienced?
- Who do I want to be? I'm still working out, Peter. One of the reasons we're here today in this hotel is to-- - Dive into that. - Is to dive into that. But I think, I know what I don't want. I'm not clear what I want yet. What I decided to do post -Cherry's death was say yes.
So like you have traveled a lot. I've had lots of experiences, spent a lot of time with people, done a lot of talking, a lot of open proper chat. Yeah. and saying yes is a good start, I think.
And I think, to be honest with you, now's not the time to decide. I think one of the things that I did was agree to take no decisions for 90 days, and I'm probably going to extend that for another 60 days, I think. Just to live,
feel and be, and not chase anything. There's a phrase I like which is chasing the invisible in pursuit of the unknown, and I think there's not.
a bad thing, Pete. I think sometimes just letting life take you, letting life decide rather than you decide. - Yeah, no, I'm all over that. So, I mean, that's who you want to be. And you are being that person.
Just what were those three things? Live? You said live something, something. Live, do, feel, or? - I don't know what I said, Pete. - But basically just allowing yourself to experience.
I'm the same. I still do not feel. ready to make any major decisions, apart from just doing a bit of travelling and having faith that the universe is taking care of me. Yeah, I want to be with people doing good work,
feeling good about what I'm doing, being intentional. And then letting what happen happen as a result of that. Yeah, letting life dictate me rather than trying to control me.
Isn't that strange? because you and I, if you look at who we were, we've definitely been people that have probably tried to take control of things and push things forwards, which has given us huge amounts of success.
I can't speak for you, I know for myself, it's given me success in the outside world in terms of, I don't know, accolades, achievements, and in terms of inner peace and fulfilment,
I'm starting to feel... more at peace, which is crazy. I'm starting to feel more alive, more grateful. Mason:
Grateful for what, Pete? What is it that you're grateful for? Pete: Life. Because I think for a lot of the time, I wasn't enjoying life because I was living in a hell of a lot of fear. And there is still fear,
obviously, but it's just like, oh, this is different. Fear of what? What's your fear? Well, a lot of it was to do with Hannah, but I think that was a mirror of just what I was probably feeling myself.
So there was obviously a fear of her getting ill again, and then her getting ill again, and then her dying and all of those things. But fear, with my work, was also fear that that would just all dry up,
and fear that, I don't know, you could go... go really deep the fear that I had that if I go back a few years, definitely looking for validation, looking for acceptance,
but as I've gotten older and having definitely gone through what I've gone through now, I'm not really bothered by all of that anymore. I'm still work in progress, but I'm just feel more at peace with who I am.
This has really opened me up. to what's inside. When you have those major stop moments where you just think, "What is this all about?" For me,
I was looking so deep in myself that I really started to see what was there beneath all of the fear and the worry and the doubt. And I realised that all that's there, there's only one thing. There's just love.
There's nothing else. There's all that there is. Yeah. We all want to feel love and give love. And love is the thing that makes us human,
I think. Humanity is love, isn't it? Yeah. I was telling you about the book by Gabel, whatever his surname is, the trauma expert.
And he was talking about how the the core of humanity is community. There's always bad eggs, but he said if you look at the history of humanity,
it was communities that came together and helped each other and gave presents and supported each other, and it's a very natural thing to be that you have to be loving. Yeah,
I mean, I think I told you the story yesterday where I decided to say yes to things. Thank you. - And I'd knock on the door a couple of days after Kerry's funeral, there was a neighbor at two or three doors down that I'd spoken to socially,
good morning, good afternoon, never really spoke to him. The lady said to me, "Dale, sorry to hear the news "about Kerry, would you like to come to my house "for cheese and wine?" I thought, "The last thing I feel like doing "is having cheese and wine with you." But I said, "Yes, yes,
I will, I will." I had a night of cheese and wine and her husband said to me, "Dale, on a Friday between eight and 10 "in the local village pub, "and all the people in the local village pub, "and all the people in the local village pub, "and all the people in the local village pub, "and all the people in the local village pub, the old men get together for a drink. "Do you want to come along?" I thought,
"The last thing I want to do "is spend an evening with a bunch of old men "who are 20 years older than me, "living in the yesterdays." And I said, "Yes." And I went and there's a fantastic community that meets in my local village pub between eight and 10,
this intentional and supports its own community that I can now dip into whenever I want. I've never had that experience of having to say yes. And the community story is there is always a community in your area.
area, it's just a case of you finding it, it's there. Yeah. I think you turn your back on it, you don't look for it. Yeah, I've definitely woken up to that as just the importance of connection and just hanging out.
And yeah, I mean, it's just forced me into a place where everything is now different. And I've fallen in love again with music. I mean, I've always loved music, but I've just,
and there's a few songs that always come to mind. mind when it comes to you. And one of those songs is "The Three of Me". William Bell. I've played that at events.
I've spoken about it. That amazing line. Last night, I had a dream. A dream. There were three of me. There was the man I was. There is the man I am. And there's the man I want to be. Fantastic,
isn't it? I've got shivers when you said it to me then, Pete, it's a great line, isn't it? And I think that's kind of where my life is. I want to be better. It's not like there's... I already have everything I need.
I just can use more of what I have to make more of a difference. And I'm definitely going to do that. And that's part of, I'm sure, our journey that we will continue is to make more people realise just how special they are.
Yeah, I think the message for me to anybody going through a bereavement is that I can't advise you. or I can do a share My experience is that but like you Pete. I Put my life on hold and a hundred percent supported pull my energy into supporting somebody else.
Yeah, the views are trying to keep them alive and When you give somebody everything you've got that changes you. Yeah, and And you don't recover from giving that much intent you don't just switch back to go go to being you,
you are different. Yeah. Just, just reflecting on that again. You get kind of everything, everything I had. And,
um, I think again yesterday, why I was getting upset because I was just again, just the realization of, of that process. Uh,
because there's always. news, you're always waiting for the next update. There's always another scan or another appointment or another bit of news that leads to another decision, another medication, another change in lifestyle.
And you're always waiting for something. It's a bit like there's always something stopping you from living, stopping you from embracing. - And that's what I suppose I just wish. And that's what I kind of dreamt last night,
that there's that kind of... living life in anticipation of the next scan, and then just waiting. And then just, I can remember so many of those moments,
the relief of, yes, the scan, there's nothing, we're clear. And then embracing that and then loving those moments. And I suppose I miss those moments, of course I miss those moments,
the moments of life, of just, and I suppose, I mean, it's really quite... quite humbling to think about it, but when you share something with someone,
I've never shared so much with someone like I shared with her, with nobody else, and I probably never will. So intimate,
just, this is me. Yeah, and caring for somebody in their last few months. months is a privilege.
It is a privilege, but it was also, I know for you, it was traumatic. I mean, really traumatic. And you, Pete, it was good as well.
Yeah, I mean, and when those thoughts come, you know, just like remembering Hannah when she wasn't able to get her words out, she knew exactly what was going on, but she just kept forgetting. things and just seeing this woman that,
yeah, life is really, when people say life is precious, it's just sad that it takes things like this for people. And I suppose one of my goals for people listening to this is for people to appreciate,
what would you like people to take away from your story? I think from my story is, you can get through this.
I am functioning. I love to carry different dealings. I love a dealie still, but you can function. You can work through it, and by reframing,
you can make life bearable, and you can do good when you're feeling bad. And I get moments of joy. I'm enjoying my walk with you, I'm enjoying this peak. I'm so happy to be here with you. not all dark. And don't try and control it.
Just accept that it is going to wave with you. And know that there's no right way to do this. There's no right way to care for somebody either.
All you can do is your best. And I remember a number of phone calls we had, Pete, where we spoke about how you support somebody. What you said. what you do.
Do you push them to talk about things? Do you push your children to talk to them? And there is no right way, but I think one of the decisions that I made was,
active decision was not to grieve twice. There's a time for grieving, and that's not when they're alive. And if your wife or your partner is ill, worrying about what's going to happen isn't going to change yet.
So get yourself in a mindset where you're not grieving twice. Grief is to come. But there's a word for death before grief. I can't remember what it's called. It's pre -cement grief.
And some people kind of lose those precious months with their partner because they're worried about what's going to be. And I would say, don't find a way to reframe it. find a way to cherish that time.
- Yeah, and that's what I wish that I, I did, you know, it's like I did my best, but I know like everything I know I could have done better. And maybe that time will come with someone else at some point,
you know. - So what would you say, Pete, to someone who said to you, their partner is terminale. - No. - And there's a journey to go on, there's a pre and a post stage.
Well, first off, I would do that all important thing around leadership, which is I would just listen, just let them speak and lean into what they're saying,
and then let them know that I'm here for you. Because I think sometimes that can be enough for people, so they just feel like I'm there for you. not on my own.
I'm not going through this on my own. I said, you know, to say, look, I've been through something similar to you and I just want you to know that I've got your back. If you ever wanna talk,
that's one thing. I'd definitely say what you say is that make the most of that time. - Yeah, and Pete, knowing that you have my back helped, I didn't have to talk to you all the time, but knowing that if ever things were so tough,
I had to pick the phone up. up, knowing that you'd come. - Yeah. - I never needed you to come, but knowing that you would. - Yeah, absolutely. I would. - If you need somebody that would come.
- Yeah, I suppose that's when you often find out, when people say who your friends are, I think it's more a question of finding out what people are made of. 'Cause it's quite scary for a lot of people to know what to do in those situations,
know what to say, know how to be, to lean into something that is. is difficult. I remember reaching out to you and saying, "Pete, you need to stop." You were being hyper -busy.
I remember saying to you, "Pete, stop. Please stop." Yeah, and it didn't take me very long to go. Absolutely right. And I did. I stopped pretty much everything. You did. And that was a blessing.
And the thing you were in love with was Clubhouse. Remember saying to you, "Pete, stop Clubhouse." And that must have been difficult for you. for you. Once I'd made the decision to do it, it wasn't.
I'm probably a bit like you. It's like, once that decision has been made, this is what I'm doing. And then I just really committed. And that's another thing.
I wish why didn't I commit more to her when she was here? But I'm not trying to be hard on myself. It's just that reflection of what I could have done differently.
And that's part of who I am. I do look back and reflect on him because I'm a coach. So it's like improvement. How could I have done better there? How could I be more loving? How could I be more...
What's the word when you're not vacant? What's the present? That's the... Yeah. I mean, I remember the phrase, relative, was giving up the thing I love doing most to care for the... person I love most.
- Yeah. - And I loved my job, I love work. And it's a positive, happy, controlled environment. And when the home environment's not that way,
it's easy to kind of see that as an escape. - Well, it's also a purpose as well. It's a big part of your identity. And to let go of that, I could see how difficult that was for me.
was. - Yeah, and I gave up work for two months in October to December, carry out a bag fitted. And she did an ileostomy. I took care of her. And those two months were fantastic.
We had all the conversations we needed to have. I had some time to prepare. I wrote a keynote presentation, I wrote a book. I started working for some people. I created a list of, and this might be a good thing for somebody going through this experience.
I created a list of. all the people that I'd lost contact with that I thought I might need in the future, and reached out to them via text, or email, or telephone, and made half a dozen, or remade, half a dozen new friends,
that were important to me in my past life, and are now important to me in my current life. So, I think you're gonna need a community, you talk about that community. - Yeah. - And there are people in your community that you've lost contact with.
who will be there for you if you reach out and reconnected with them in the present before you need them, is a bit of advice I would give to some people, I think. And I would also say if you need to seek professional help,
I mean, I was speaking to a therapist before Hannah passed away because it was just unfamiliar territory. I did not know how to navigate that land. In my work, I'm helping people navigate a land.
They don't know that exists, you know, their future. But when you find yourself in a place where you don't know how to navigate because it's all unfamiliar to you, don't be afraid to seek out help from people that have helped people navigate through these very challenging times,
waters that you're sailing on. - So you're three months ahead of me in the journey, Pete. And I originally said I made no decisions for 90 days. - And I'm going to defer that process again.
because I don't feel I'm ready to make the right decisions. You're six months in now, where are you at? I'm the same. I'm still not ready. I'm still not ready to make any major decisions. I want to do more speaking and I want to continue to do my podcast but apart from that spend time with people.
I'm not like... So there's big questions about where do you want to live? Do you know where you want to live? I'm happy to stay where I am at this moment in time. time. I think for the first time in my life,
not maybe not the first time, but the first time as an adult, I definitely want to let things happen, be intentional in being open to everything that's attached to nothing.
I don't have any big aspirations. Well, actually, that's not true. I do have big aspirations. I want to help more. more and more people discover who they are.
But I realise if I want to do that at the level I want to do it, I need to continue just to discover who I am. And so how has your message changed, Pete? Your message was future self.
Yes. And that was a very clear narrative around future self. You will meet your future self. And everything you do is a vote for against that person. Yeah. They're cheering you on, just be glad when you meet them was the was the directional moment and that's changed a bit.
That's slightly so where's it gone to? Well, Dr Ray who was massively, massively helped me with all of this is just almost like held a mirror up to me for me to see how I'm thinking and moving through the world and I think all that's different is the uncovering of who's you are.
It's not a future destination. It's already there. Everything you have is everything you need. That's who you are and knowing just how great you are with all of our flaws and insecurities and imperfections,
which we all have as human beings. Beneath all of that is the essence of who we are. And it's knowing that and knowing that you can become more on the back of that by overcoming.
becoming by overcoming, that's where the message has changed. And then I suppose also just the renewal of have faith that if you do the right things that the good things will happen as a consequence.
Yeah, and there's a, there's a, I like that, I like that have faith. Yeah. Good things will come as a consequence. I like that, Pete. I think there's a phrase I like,
which is you can't put in what God left out. You can polish. You can take a three and polish it. You can't polish a church. Yeah, you can make a three out of ten or five out of ten, but you've got some God -given talents.
They are in eight and you can hone them and you can take those eights and make them tens. And reminding yourself where your tens are, where you're over index, and thinking about how you can use that for good.
Yeah. And how in your future self you can be more... more of you. How you can polish what you're already good at. Yeah, I like that. So we talked about you becoming a really brilliant speaker.
You're a great speaker. Yeah. We talked about making it immersive, making it experiential. Yeah. That's what I'm doing and that's what I'll continue to do and I'd love to continue to work with you. But tell us a little bit about you as a leader,
because as you know, I've worked in a quite a long time. world and met many leaders just by observing them, coaching them, mentoring them, but what I've observed you do at Suzuki is just unreal.
Tell us a little bit about what you do professionally and what you've done. I've been director of Suzuki cars in the UK for 13 years, I've been with the company for 16 years,
and I created a vision for the business, which should be the trust car brand for those who are proud to be different. 12 words and four themes. And the themes are trusted, and that trust is about more than trust between customer and dealer,
it's employee, it supplies everybody, trust is at the heart of it. For those who's about not having to follow the crowd, pride is about how you should feel to be associated with the company. And different is about not having to follow the category,
being prepared to follow the category. be different, being prepared to stand out. And we've been the most trusted car brand for seven of the last nine measurements. And I've achieved many things about advertising awards,
leadership awards, profit, volume. But no, you've done well by your customers is the thing that gives me great pride, Pete. Well, when I was asked to do the job for the Suzuki, I remember exactly where I was.
I was at some temporary traffic lights and there was this. Suzuki car in front of me. It was a Swift. I jumped out, knocked on the window. The woman just looked at me and said, "Should I open the window?" She did.
I said, "Excuse me. I'm just about to do some work with Suzuki. Can you tell me what's it like driving this car?" And I can't remember exactly what she said, but she said, "I just love it. I love this car." And that seems to be what a lot of Suzuki Suzuki owners say is that their car is an extension of themselves and they are actually kind of proud to be to be different.
Yeah, there's a good, the phrase with the reuse called good different, which has been different in a good way, not a quirky way. And that's a combination of the product and the people and the personality that goes with it and the fact that you're stepping away from the norm and saying,
"I'm a bit different. I've chosen this." So that's important. And you asked me about leadership, my approach to leadership. So I talk about the five hours of leadership.
And my approach to leadership is to work through those hours. So the first hour is listen. If I was to get into a new position or new problem, listen, listen for the ground floor up.
Listen to suppliers, listen to the people that are going to help you. And it's probably not the management team. team probably not the board of directors, but it's you're listening for the things They don't know So that's the listen and then it's link anything.
Okay. I'm right. Sorry, then it's learn So I've now learned what needs to be done. I'm clear where where we are What's wrong and I'm clear what the future set needs to look like? So who do I I've known learned the next stage is How do I who have I got a link up with who are the people that are going to make this happen?
happen? Who are the important stakeholders in this? That's the link. And the next bit is leverage. How do we do that in a way that gives that person something they need as well? And then the last one is love.
How do you do that in a way that serves somebody else? So if you can listen, you can learn, you can link, you can leverage and do it in a way that dispenses love. You can achieve great things and I often talk about Popeye had spinach and the superpower for a leader is love.
That's the multiplier. - So, you know, I told you, I heard someone talking about leadership recently and they're four L's of leadership as well, but there was one element I thought was missing,
which was love. And, you know, when I hear leaders talk about this stuff, often I hear them talk about it. it in a way that it just doesn't feel real, you know,
but that's just my interpretation. Or when you speak to people that they lead, they don't see the same as the leader. It just seems like it's just a little bit of talk, but I've seen your management team,
your senior leadership team, and I see how you have impacted them in a way that I think is so unique to the point where... where one of your people actually came to you when you started doing the opposite of what you had been doing because your approach to leadership seems that you lean into people who lead others and support them for them to be able to lead others.
Is that right? Yeah. Yeah, it is. I mean, I believe that an open heart takes you much further than a clenched fist. And the days of the leader being the boss, the manager, the do -as -I -say, manager,
management through fear doesn't work, and I know that disappointment is a much more powerful notion than fear. And you don't look at the compliance, you look at the conviction.
Some people manage through compliance and fear, and I manage through love and open heart and conviction. And I know that the management team and I are friends,
and I love you. that the power of disappointment is much more better than what I think. I think if anyone on my team knew that they disappointed me. That's a team,
isn't it? And let's just talk to me a little bit about trust. What does trust mean to you? Well, I think there are three elements of trust.
In order to really trust somebody, you've got to have, you've got to say yes to these three things. The first thing is motive. What's their real motive? So if you're looking to interview a new employee and you're thinking,
can I trust this person in the room? The first thing is what's their motive? Why are they here? Are they fleeing something or they're attracted to me? The business, often people are fleeing something. So the first one is motive. Second one is reliability.
Does this person show up in life? You can't trust somebody that's not reliable. Do they show up? We've talked about you and our friendship, you would show up, Pete, you're reliable. And the third is capability.
Have they got the skills to do the job? So for example, if I wanted to rewire my house, I trust my mum, but she's not the person to trust my job. (laughing) My mum's motive would be good. She'd turn up, she says she's got the skills to do the job.
- Yeah. - So that combination of motive, reliability and capability are the ingredients that I think make trust. trust. And the capability thing you can train,
but the motive has to come from the heart. - Yeah. - And some people are not reliable. They haven't got control of their lives. If they can't control their lives, how can you trust that person?
So if you want to be a trusted person, be reliable. - Yeah, I really, really, I really like that. - Yeah. I really, really like that. I like the idea of, you know,
if you can't be reliable, then things are just gonna fall down. And it just makes me stop and think also the question you asked me yesterday about who I wanna coach. It's coaching the people that wanna turn up.
Just keep turning up. Who was it that I think it was Woody Allen that said 80 % of success is just showing up. Just show up and then we'll deal with it when you've shown up. But I'm here. I'm here through thick and thin.
I'm here, you know? And that's what's so great about you is that no matter what you have faced or facing, you're still, so I'm still here. I'm not going anywhere.
- Yeah. Yeah, I think it's about holding yourself accountable to your own personal standard. - Yeah. - And I think it's about knowing that that you can do great work.
You can make a huge difference to people's lives just by listening and by asking questions. And you do that for a living, Pete. I mean, you know that coaching is about taking somebody from where they are to where they wanna be. And in business,
you do that through a plan, a plan on a page. And in business, you do that by answering the big question. So I think the question and leader answers is where to from here and why you should join me on the journey,
where to from here and why you should join me on the journey. the journey. And that's the big question. And without that answer, you can't lead. Well,
I definitely want to continue to join you on this journey that we're on. I do feel that we are two peas of the same pod. We've got some adventures together. We're going to have some fun,
mate. We're going to do some stuff. We are definitely going to do some stuff, some adventures. to be had, some explorations to be gone on. So I'm conscious, Pete, that we may have triggered some people here.
Yeah. I've been close to tears a couple of times in this chat and I've seen you are. Yeah, no, definitely, I've cried. And we didn't get into the details. We could have really kind of got ourselves into quite an emotional state.
So what advice would you give to somebody if they are triggered by this? If they are triggered, then reach out. Reach out to Dale, reach out. to myself. I will put your LinkedIn details there.
But if you're triggered and you want to speak to someone, again, contact us. We can definitely point you in the right direction. Yeah, what would you say to someone who's triggered? Yeah,
reach out. I'm not a counselor. I will listen and I will try and help. Um, uh, but I'm not a counsellor, so I just...
Yeah, no, absolutely. I'm not a counsellor either. But that doesn't stop us from just, you know, listening. Yeah. Yeah,
so I hope that anybody who's triggered does reach out, or does seek out, or does talk. Well, you listened to the podcast episode I did not long ago where I was very emotional. That was brave,
Pete. That was brave. brave. Why was it brave, do you think? Because it was raw. And there was no filter.
Yeah. And being that raw without filter in a public way takes courage. So, well done, James. Thank you. It was funny, isn't it, about filters? I think that's one of the things which happens to us.
that's gone through this that are some of our filters have just been removed where we just see things a lot more clearly you know we are better people because of what we are going through.
Yeah I do feel better and I've watched you and you're better Pete. Yeah. I do feel more able to generate change, do feel better at building authentic relationships with people I do feel that I'm a bit more humble I do feel that my fragility makes me more effective and I've got external weakness and an internal strength.
I'm stronger inside and the heart of the lion is how I feel, Pete. Yeah, the spirit in you is definitely a force to be reckoned with.
And I do believe we are. spiritual beings living in the human existence. That's one thing I definitely believe in the spirit of me is strengthened by this.
My body has been weakened by it, there's no question about it, it's emotionally impacted me but the essence of who I am is better. And the other message I would give somebody is there is a chapter 2,
I know there's a chapter 2. Yeah. And it's coming in. view. And the message I would give anybody is that chapter 2 in your life is there. Don't chase it,
but it will come into view. It's a mirage at the moment. I can see it. Yeah. I can't shape it. I couldn't see it two months ago. I couldn't even see see the mirage a month ago, but now it's forming.
I really like that. That whole thing is forming for you. Coming to me. I'm not just coming to it. I'm not pursuing it, it's getting a step closer to me every day.
You know, you've heard me say a great life, it doesn't happen by chance, it happens by design and that designing process, I think some of it is just being designed for us. That's how I look at it and it will become clearer to you.
It's revealing itself to you, but as again you've heard me say that in life there's only one way and I personally... think it's the person's choice to find out their way, find out your way,
find out your why, find out who you are, and realise this wonderful, precious thing that you have and what you can do with it. Yeah, it's called life.
Yeah. And if you can live a life of love, you can live a great life, I think, mate. Well, we'll end on this. My coach, when he was alive, said, "You look at the word life, L -I -A." he said put a big cross between the I and the F don't live your life by ifs If I did this if I done that he said your life take the L and the E the legacy of your life Is that when you exit when it ends you loved your life
and you gave love and For me Dale, that's the biggest takeaway. We've taken up 4 % of someone's day someone who's maybe listened to this from beginning to end.
Feel free to reach out to Dale or myself or to Dr. Ray with any feedback that you have. But Dale, thank you so much for your time today.
- Let's do this again, Pete. I think there's another chat in us. - I definitely, I think there's more than another chat, but I'm definitely up for that. - Great, thanks for your time, Pete.