29 Aug, 2023

Pete Cohen:

Happy beautiful day. Welcome to the podcast, Happy Mindful Intentions. Ray, good morning to you. How you doing today?

 

Dr. Ray Sylvester:

Good morning, Pete. I'm well, my friend. How are you?

 

Pete Cohen:

Yeah, I'm great. I'm currently in a place called Neuseidel, which is about an hour outside of Vienna. Yesterday, I cycled 125 kilometers, which is about 75 miles, which was awesome. Just to push myself a little bit further than what I would normally and to do it with my brother. My brother is someone I'm so proud of because, you know, a few years ago, he never would have done anything like that. He was someone who could procrastinate about. activity and he was ahead of me most of the way. We cycled into Hungary and it was amazing to do something that was a little testing. So I'm feeling it today but I'm excited for us to do the podcast today. What about you, Ray? How are you getting on?

 

Dr. Ray Sylvester:

I'm good, as you know, I'm transitioning to a new job, and at the same time, my son is transitioning in as a transfer. So we spent most of yesterday orientating ourselves around the campus as he prepares to go into there. And then we had, as you, where we do in Indiana, this incredible weather change from this very strong. sun lights and heat and I think if I convert it into centre grade probably in the 27s, 28s and then suddenly you have this torrential downpour. So my son's not long driving so when we came back it was great to sit with him and go through weather conditions he wasn't used to and it made me think about today's podcast because um That's what we all need sometimes is a little bit of confidence about things that we've not experienced before. because largely we often just make decisions based on what we've experienced and that was the first time he had the challenge of driving through torrential rain with limited sight in front of him. So it was

 

Pete Cohen:

Hmm.

 

Dr. Ray Sylvester:

important to talk him through, you know, the things like aquaplanes and other things and everyone, majority of people reduced their speed and said stay out of the faster lane, anyone that wants to play brave, that's up to them. But yeah, a really good, bizarrely great bonding moment with my son where, you know, I'm having to let go of the reins as he's a man,

 

Pete Cohen:

I'm sorry.

 

Dr. Ray Sylvester:

a young man, but at the same time I'm having to be mindful that this is dangerous conditions. So, yeah, it was a challenge. That was a challenge.

 

Pete Cohen:

With the whole stop movement that we really have created, which I can see in what we've been talking about on the podcast, and the feedback that we've had, I think that's the thing we hear more than anything else. The importance of stopping and appreciating, that's one of the things we talked about in the podcast last time. And I've learned so much through stopping. and really appreciating like my, I said to my brother, I've never, and to my nieces, I've never spent so much time with my brother in my entire life. You know, we're actually hanging out together, doing stuff together, because we never really had time. We were too busy leading our lives, and it has taken the biggest stop of my life, which was my wife passing away from my brother and I to have this relationship where we're like best friends. And I'm very grateful to you around what we're doing and people just reaching out to us and just saying, thank you for really helping me with this whole stopping thing because I'm starting to appreciate things and see things differently. And Ray, tell us a little bit about what we're gonna discuss today because I think this is truly fascinating when we think about wanting to change all of the information that is in the world that if we applied it and we... We did something about it. We could be happier. We could be healthier. We could be more productive. We could do so much more. Why do you think that's such a big challenge for people to actually do what they could do?

 

Dr. Ray Sylvester:

Well Pete, you know the listeners don't know, we've been discussing this for a while. And I often use the weight loss industry as an example. This massively burdensome quest that people go through to lose weight that's worth billions of pounds and dollars. And when you look at the art and science of life. The science is clear in terms of weight loss and I don't want to bore our listeners with all the different areas involved But most people know the principles even though they may vary from cluster to cluster and we've seen this explosion in different diets and Modalities, but basically there's a trend line where people can work Principles out. However, and this is the big however the art of being able to be successful. It's terrible and I think you've had some real expert insight into that and if you look at The Biggest Loser that used to be a very popular American TV show and you look at the people after the show, after they've no longer are getting the intention and the intentional instruction from individuals. And that's interesting given the name of MI 365 when the intention, intentional instructors moved away from them and they were left to their own devices. The art of deploying the discipline necessary. for that maintenance of weight loss was lost. Their lifestyles, their eating patterns all changed and reverted back and one of the things I think, Pete, for us is why do people consistently fail and I think it's in that story that actually all we have is our own experiences and our own experiences normally keep us on the straight and narrow and we've talked about the conscious and the subconscious mind. Our conscious mind is like I said the captain of a ship and the subconscious mind is the engine room that's actually moving the ship. Well the engine room only listens to what the captain says. So if someone wakes in the morning and says, oh, I feel so tired, I don't want to get up. Well, guess what? The body listens to that, and your body will feel even heavier and more lethargic. But someone wakes up in the morning and said, this is going to be a wonderful day, then they're energizing their body. And there's been some controversy, I think, on one of the social media platforms. And I think a footballer from the team, we both support Pete, but I won't. mention it, I don't want to be biased, but

 

Pete Cohen:

I'm sorry.

 

Dr. Ray Sylvester:

they had a former forward and he attests to this notion that if you can talk to water, like people talk about talking to plants, and again we've had this discussion about the metaphysical, but the reason why I think it's worthy of speaking now is that if we are the product of all of our experiences, then isn't important for us to add new experiences in, particularly if we spent a life with challenges and trauma. And that's why meditation, which is a form of stopping, taking time out for yourself, a form of stopping, should be a regular occurrence because you're contributing intentionally a balance in apparatus to what's going on in your life. Because if you're someone who has only known a lifestyle one way and then someone tells you another one, you cannot will yourself into that. You need to give your brain, your conscious mind, and more importantly, your subconscious, because that's the one that really starts to get reprogrammed through stopping. You give yourself a chance for real change. Sorry for the long garbled answer, but that's

 

Pete Cohen:

I'm

 

Dr. Ray Sylvester:

how

 

Pete Cohen:

sure

 

Dr. Ray Sylvester:

I see it.

 

Pete Cohen:

I'm sure I'm not the only person that is listening to this and in my mind Taking time to decipher what you're saying and relate it to my own experience because How many people listening to this have got? Something they would like to do that. Maybe it's challenging Sometimes I don't feel like doing it whether it's being fit or healthier or just advancing with their business or improving the relationships they have with people, how many people have started something and then not finished it. I'm sure we all know it's not lack of the right information. However, I'm sure there are lots of people that still get confused, especially when it comes to being fit and healthy, you know, what should I be eating? But in the main, I think most of us, it's not the lack of information. The information is out there. You can just think about it. How much info? I remember the... reading a quote from a man who won the Nobel Prize in 1972, who was just saying the biggest problem in the world is that there's actually too much information. And you think about that, if that 1972, well, Ray, I know you were just a few years old, I was two, where did we get information from compared to now? It's everywhere. And I think it's hard sometimes to switch off from the distractions. It's hard to... focus on anything because where is your attention being taken? And what I would love to ask you a little bit about, I'd love us to have a little bit of a discussion around the human mind and the inherent dysfunction of the human mind. I, I sent you a few messages the other day because I went back and looked at some stuff I'd done some work on years ago, whether you look at religion, ancient teaching teachings, spiritual traditions, they there is this kind of theme around the inherent dysfunction of the human brain, of the human mind, I should say. There's nothing wrong with the brain, unless, of course, you have some sort of genetic or something happens to you in your life, perhaps. But this, I think in Hinduism, they call it Maya, which is this, they call it like a veil of delusion. In Buddhism, they call it Dukkha, which is the... suffering and unsatisfactoriness or misery that the human mind can produce. In Christianity, there's this thing called the original sin, which is where you're kind of missing the mark. I was reading about its ancient Greek translation, meaning the missing of the mark, the point of human existence. And I wonder, is everyone kind of flawed a little bit? Does everyone have... this tendency of the mind to play tricks on them for us to get distracted for us to doubt ourselves. I'm just curious as to what your take is on the human mind.

 

Dr. Ray Sylvester:

Great question, very complicated

 

Pete Cohen:

Right.

 

Dr. Ray Sylvester:

to answer one way. I would say that we've discussed this briefly before, but if we are fixed, all of our measurements, our calibrations are generally driven by our five senses and as infants they're largely driven by taste, touch and smell and then they graduate if it were. in the sensory capacity to seeing and hearing. And there are old tales like, give me a child from one to five, I give you an adult for the rest of their life. And it shows you the capacity for our brains to wire themselves and make things happen. And I think many person has talked about the capacity of the brain, the young brain, to grow neuro pathways and to have some very solid ideas about... what they're doing. And that's why I think if you look at the life of anyone that is particularly gifted in any area, you can see a pattern emerging. And that social pattern of their life was actually something that also happens in the brain. So there's no surprise that the Williams sisters are where they are because the pattern of normal life was broken. And if anyone has watched the film King

 

Pete Cohen:

Yeah.

 

Dr. Ray Sylvester:

Richard, which now has some infaminy connected to it because of the leading actor's conduct at the Academy,

 

Pete Cohen:

the ostriches.

 

Dr. Ray Sylvester:

if you can move yourself away from that distraction, that is one of the most profound films

 

Pete Cohen:

But,

 

Dr. Ray Sylvester:

in recent years,

 

Pete Cohen:

well, it's interesting

 

Dr. Ray Sylvester:

because you

 

Pete Cohen:

that

 

Dr. Ray Sylvester:

can

 

Pete Cohen:

you-

 

Dr. Ray Sylvester:

take someone, so I just finished, you

 

Pete Cohen:

Yes,

 

Dr. Ray Sylvester:

can take

 

Pete Cohen:

sorry.

 

Dr. Ray Sylvester:

this person, the father, who's lived this broken existence and is living his life. and focus through this dream he has. And everyone thinks he's completely not all there and not all together. But through perseverance and you need a little bit of luck and everything falling into the right place and then getting an ally towards the end and then moving down to, I believe it was Florida, and then making some big decisions like my children will not try to play sports. at a young age and go to school. I want my girls to go to school normally and they won't start until they go into the pro circuit. It was genius and more and more people have followed that. Reminds me, I said in the last podcast, the Roger Bannister story, as soon as he did it, other people believed it. It shows you that when we develop faith and a belief in something, it can happen. But if you are the product of your experiences and you have no other reinforcements. is very difficult. So I like King Richard because he did something that had never been done before. That takes belief. That means he's not subject just to his own journey in life. He's found something else. And stopping helps us all find that something else, whoever you are, wherever you are. The question is, do you want to find that

 

Pete Cohen:

Mmm.

 

Dr. Ray Sylvester:

missing mojo because you have it if you stop?

 

Pete Cohen:

Well, it's fascinating when you said that about the Williams sisters, I saw that Venus actually won, I think yesterday, an event. Well, she won a game that she was playing at the age of 43. And what Richard Williams obviously did is he had the dream, but he obviously stopped and really thought carefully through what was going to happen. And then, of course, you talk about the actor that played. Richard Williams as in Will Smith and actually it was you that suggested to me to listen to the audio of Will Smith and when you look at Will Smith's life and you realize the life that he had, for me it wasn't surprising that he did, that he had maybe that tendency to do something like what he did and I'm sure that was, well just think the whole world stopped when that happened. And I'm sure that's the biggest stop of Will Smith's life. And I bet he now sees life in a completely different way to the way he saw it before. I think if you listen to any of the podcasts that Dr. Ray and I have done, I'm sure you will start to appreciate or see the power in stopping and knowing that some of the greatest lessons that we've had in our life have come about because something difficult, challenging happened. And then all of a sudden life is never the same again. What we've been talking about is about consciously choosing to create stop moments in your life. And the conversation that you and I had Ray a little yesterday and before we went live today around why is it, why do you think it's so challenging to get people to actually stop? Like for me, you know, with the Wim Hof stuff that I do, the breathing. the exercise stuff that I do, I still can... procrastinate. It's weird. It sounds a bit of a it sounds a little bit crazy to say this, but to stop doing that, to start doing something else that I'm sure that many people find that hugely different, difficult to stop doing something that doesn't serve them and to start doing something that they know is going to advance them in some way, shape or form or make them feel better. Just curious as to what your take on that is.

 

Dr. Ray Sylvester:

Again, I love this conversation. It's deep and it has all these layers. I think

 

Pete Cohen:

Ha!

 

Dr. Ray Sylvester:

I'll try and say this simply that we have to get out of our own way. And what I mean by that is the accumulated perception of the world we have is almost certainly one that is skewed from one particular lens. And if you look at Jane Elliot, a teacher in a, I think, I believe a midwestonian area of America the day after MLK Martin Luther King was assassinated, did a social experiment which probably would have got her struck off now particularly with some of these very boisterous parent governor groups. But at that time she did it and she basically divided the class in her mind and her actions. by green and blue, blue and green was one group and brown eyes and she went backwards and forwards on different days, praising one group and bringing the other group down. And what she found from that experiment sent a shudder through her body, which has left her with a lifelong commitment to eradicating the judgment of people by the way they look. She had that paradigm shift, she stopped for a moment. and we can go through the ethics of, you know, using kids for the experiment. But what it showed was those young minds looking to develop their own learning, which means their brains would start to shape and form a norm in particular ways. She recognized how malleable those brains were. But more recently

 

Pete Cohen:

Thank you.

 

Dr. Ray Sylvester:

in neuroscience, we're discovering that doesn't stop. Someone somewhere assumed it was just in childhood, but anyone listening to this at any age can change and create new neuro pathways, but they come from a recognized new experience. The suggestion I believe Pete, you and I are making simply is new experiences only come from intention and it's difficult to find new experiences outwardly because that's in your strength and your will and the opposition that you might face. It starts inwardly first and you create space. And I think you and I have been talking, I sent you a message a few days ago as we play around with the name, but you know, stopping, suspending the outdated performance.

 

Pete Cohen:

Yeah.

 

Dr. Ray Sylvester:

Every one of us, if we are by default, live in an outdated perspective. And I've said to you a number of times, and I know you went, oh, that's interesting. I don't believe we should trust our feelings fully. They're there for a good safety parameter, absolutely. but there are some big decisions in our life where our feelings are acutely attuned to everything we've experienced. So I know that I have an Achilles' heel on multiple layers in terms of my default, because I would have been brought up a particular way with a family with a particular dynamic. And I know that to be true of most of the people I encounter, the recognition that actually our lives None of them are perfect. They are the lives that we've had. You have an opportunity through the process of the stop principle, just to infuse an openness and an ability for the brain to rewire and construct new habits is phenomenal. And that's why I think you and I are spending this time doing that. It is incredible opportunity. for people to say, I need this change, but for sustainability, what you're saying is, I cannot compete with all of the neuro pathways, the memories, the conditioning, all of the social phenomenon I've already been through. I can't hope to go against that unless I start to build a balancing narrative. And that, I believe, and we've talked about this, is journaling. and this is the practical things, meditation, stillness, contemplation, but time of stillness in this busy world, particularly for our young folk. If you're a parent listening to this, or even a young person, you know, six to eight hours spent looking at a screen, and that's a child who still goes to school, they're finding that cumulative time each day, that's crippling people for their creativity because they're now being defined by images that are created by other people who are equally shaped and challenged by their own history and they are reporting and projecting imagery that says this is the cool kid, this is the way you want to be. So this is quite an agenda I think that stopping is a principle across all generations

 

Pete Cohen:

Hmm.

 

Dr. Ray Sylvester:

and it's allowing us to take stock and I think we've spoken, it gave the analogy of the F1 or it could be NASCAR, whatever, but cars need to refuel or pull over and change their tires. F1, they don't do refueling anymore for safety reasons, but they will need to change tires. And you will see that even in that changeover, sometimes someone can be maneuvered and someone else can end up in front of them. That's the story of life. We all have to take pit stops at different time to be healthy, but some people don't. know that or accept it

 

Pete Cohen:

Yeah.

 

Dr. Ray Sylvester:

and they keep going.

 

Pete Cohen:

You

 

Dr. Ray Sylvester:

I hope that's helpful.

 

Pete Cohen:

know, yesterday I cycled, as I mentioned at the beginning, this 75 miles and I wear this aura ring which measures sleep. And it gave me a warning today saying your body temperature was really hot in the night. And it actually is quite hot here. But you think about, I was out in the heat yesterday and it was hot. And it's not, it's not surprising that my body temperature just hadn't... return to normal. And I think what's also fascinating is if anyone here has ever done anything difficult and challenging like that, the serenity that comes afterwards because you stopped is such a beautiful thing. And in the podcast that went out when you're listening to this, it was the podcast that went out last week is we talked about appreciation. And I think that isn't life so much better when we're able to appreciate where we are? Um, and

 

Dr. Ray Sylvester:

Yeah.

 

Pete Cohen:

we've spoken about this before as well, and it's almost like this message, it might go over a lot of people's heads, but I, I'd love to know, and I'm more than happy to share this as well, but I'd love to hear from you Ray in terms of when people are listening to what we're talking about, especially around stopping, what would you like to see happen for people?

 

Dr. Ray Sylvester:

You're coming up with some great questions today.

 

Pete Cohen:

Well, I'll answer it first if you

 

Dr. Ray Sylvester:

Let

 

Pete Cohen:

want,

 

Dr. Ray Sylvester:

me...

 

Pete Cohen:

maybe it's a bit unfair just to kind of...

 

Dr. Ray Sylvester:

Yeah, no, I love it. I think what's interesting about that question, if I can just take one step back,

 

Pete Cohen:

Yeah.

 

Dr. Ray Sylvester:

is you and I have known each other for two years, and we've talked about this podcast. But again, we are stopping all the time to talk. We are in what we call an iterative process of going backwards and forwards. We thought it would be the my intention manual of discussions and we've arrived back at stop. And the more I look at stop, it is a mountain to climb of information perspectives. And we're not suggesting for one moment that we have it right. But I do know that if someone is part, and they're silent generation, boomer generation, we're in the Gen X generation, millennials. And if you look at Gen Z's, Gen Alphas. there is a consistent thread that runs through and it's busyness. What's interesting is the busyness up to Gen Xs and some millennials was the busyness of work and routine, which has been massively disrupted by the pandemic. But then you've got also the busyness of the mind now amongst particularly younger people. So it's been shown that if you're busy doing something that requires your concentration, That in of itself gives you an element of stopping because you're just focusing on things. So the levels of stress from people that are committed to a job that requires a lot of focus and concentration, they tend to be healthier individuals because outside of that focus, they then can enjoy other things. But if your mind can't get a focus and it's constantly moving around, we've seen this incredible growth in mental health challenges. Now, I'm sure there's an argument that it's just being more recognized now because there weren't titles and labels given to things. But I do think the way in which our life is, that's where we are. So you and I are talking about groups of people. Now, if we were marketeers, breaking this down and thinking, who's gonna hear us? Then even our life experiences will probably mean that the sweet spot arguably could be. Gen Xers and we might touch a little bit of boomers and some millennials. But that's the old linear way of thinking that we can only have a conversation with people that are born in the 70s or the 60s. I don't believe that to be the case. I believe that we're on a little mission here to talk about the power of stopping and we need to stop, both of us, you and I, and we're doing it all the time, to regroup. And I just hope and pray that people are engaged enough to stick with us as we go on this journey as well, because I think there are so many layers to this. And as you know, I'm not an advocate of absoluteness in our own broken nature. We are working our way through. It's why I have some caution with personal development that when people say, you know, you can do it, the God within, you've got control. And the evidence suggests to me there are lots of Gen Xs I know that incredibly fit, you know, they have a credible diet plan, but that head space is all over the place. And there is a growth now in the levels of nervous breakdowns amongst people in our age group, Pete. And I think it's because, and this is my take, they are following the science of life. Oh, I run every day. I do this. I do that. because stopping allows you to manage the art of self. You go into this space, this void, it doesn't have an agenda, it's open, and that stillness brings up things. And the first thing in stopping is bringing up challenges that you have interpreted yourself. So people can live in the same family, and someone can have challenges that are different from another. I'm listening to you speak, Pete, and I will... put you back under the spot. You said something that I thought was quite beautiful at the beginning. You said, I've never spent so much time with my brother. I'm guessing, and you can tell me if I'm wrong, you've never spent as much time as an adult. Let's just stick with adult.

 

Pete Cohen:

Hahaha.

 

Dr. Ray Sylvester:

Let's not go down the childhood line, but as an adult, which means that you spent most of your adult life into your 50s and your brother. you know, respecting each other but doing your own thing. But something has changed. And to me, that involves obviously a stop with you, with Deanna, but also with your brother. He would have gone through a stop and a perspective. And what I hear, which is so wonderful, is you're on this long excruciating bike ride that makes my eyes water. But outside of that, what a wonderful bonding time. And I'll land my plane on this, I think. it's getting some rounds again on social media, on Instagram and other platforms, that Harvard study showed that the strongest contributor to longevity is relationships.

 

Pete Cohen:

Hmm.

 

Dr. Ray Sylvester:

And when they factored everything down, physical activity and everything is relationships. So you can be a highly strong GenXer working in corporate America or corporate UK or Europe. and you could be up at four or five working out, you're doing CrossFit, you've done triathlon, you're on your paleo diet, you do a bit of intermittent fasting, you do all of that. And if I'm saying that and that's triggering someone, then I don't wish to trigger you, but I do. Because if your relationship quality is in the toilet, then I would say that you need to spend some time stopping to make sure that you can start to find the wisdom. and the sensitivity and the empathy. And that's the other thing, Pete, when you stop, you gain much more empathy for the world around you and compassion for people. The faster you go, the less time you have for people. If we're talking about wellness, I'm guessing, going back to the point I made with you, you are having some incredible bonding time with your brother, and that speaks to the research and our conversation. That's stopping you doing right now. is absolutely critical for your personal growth and the development of, you are actually creating new neural learnings

 

Pete Cohen:

Hmm.

 

Dr. Ray Sylvester:

and pathways in your brain because you're creating new experiences that you've not had before. That is a moment of pause, stop, just to congratulate you and your brother for doing that.

 

Pete Cohen:

Well, Ray, what can I say? When it comes to relationships, I wonder what people think about that just in terms of what is a great relationship with others. I mean, maybe next time we can talk about being your own best friend, which is something that you and I have been speaking about. What does that look like when you truly are your own best friend? What does that look like? Why would anyone want to do that? Why is it challenging? But when I reflect on the relationship I have with you, the relationship I have with my brother, it's so enhanced by stopping and creating space for each other. You know, if I'm with my brother and I'm on my phone, am I really with my brother? I am, but I'm not engaged. I'm not really there. I'm not really present. And that's what I would like people to do, is we wrap up. this podcast today, because I'm actually on someone else's podcast in a minute. I would really encourage people to think about the relationships you have with the people that are important to you and see what happens if you stop maybe what you might be doing when you're with that person and be more, more present. And I think the last thing way around all of this, I want to thank everyone who come is coming on this journey with us because With these conversations, they're often, like you said, Ray, there's layers to them, and we could go so deep, but hopefully we're giving you guys some food for thought, that maybe on the back of what you're hearing, you might consciously create some more stop-moments and appreciate and treasure some of the gifts that you currently have that are there for you to enjoy. So, Ray, I want to once again thank you for your time today. Was there anything you'd like to add just before we... We end the podcast today.

 

Dr. Ray Sylvester:

No, I think Pete, the relationship aspect, I would say that stopping allows you to form an intentional relationship with yourself so that you can actually confidently say to yourself, yeah, I have a best friend in myself, which in of itself sounds culturally challenging, but stopping allows you to make friends with yourself. That's something that just comes from what you've just said, but it also allows you to contemplate and be the best version of yourself in relationship with others.

 

Pete Cohen:

Well, I'd love to have that conversation on the next podcast. But for now, thank you to everyone listening all over the world. Please make sure you reach out to us. Tell us what you've taken away from this, what you'd like us to talk about the different themes that are really hitting home for you. But for now, I wish you all a happy, beautiful day. And Ray, I will see you very soon.

 

Dr. Ray Sylvester:

Absolutely. Thank you, Pete. And thank you to all our listeners.