7 Oct, 2020

072 Interview With 6x Snooker World Champion Ronnie O’Sullivan

In 2002 I recorded a podcast with (then) two-times World Snooker Champion, Ronnie O’Sullivan, recording a second one the following year. Now, eighteen years on, Ronnie and I recorded a third podcast together reflecting on what has changed and what has stayed the same.

In this fascinating interview Ronnie will explain how he has changed from being the young and hungry young player to one of the sport’s senior players – more interested in his own improvement and development of the game over winning competitions and prizes. Together we explore what drives him today both within the game and, more importantly, outside it along with the challenges of being a celebrity and the distraction that trying to meet the expectations of others can present.
As well as his frank reflections on addiction and his ongoing commitment to personal development, Ronnie will also share his views on mastery and how practice is important but not as important as building habits of the right things and doing things in the right way.

From a life in the spotlight since the age of seventeens, Ronnie O’Sullivan is now living life on his own terms.

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About Pete Cohen:
Pete is one of the world’s leading life coaches and keynote speakers. People from all over the world have been motivated and inspired by Pete’s presentations. He has professionally impacted on the lives of hundreds of thousands of people worldwide, including business executives, professional athletes and everyday people in all walks of life. Pete focuses on the importance of closing the gap in our lives between where we are and where we want to be, in our health, relationships professional lives.
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He is the author of 19 published books, several of which have been best-sellers across the world, including Shut the Duck Up, Habit Busting, Life DIY and Sort Your Life Out. He has also presented his own show on TV called The Coach and was the resident life coach on GMTV for 12 years.
His new book Inspirators – Leading The Way In Leadership is available for free here


Pete Cohen 0:09
Happy beautiful day. It is the money Mi365 Podcast, it is Pete Cohen, and I am super excited and fired up to share something truly magical with you we have recorded well over 300 podcasts, and many years ago, actually I think nearly 16 years ago I actually recorded a couple of podcasts with snooker world champion. Mr. Ronnie O'Sullivan, I worked with him for two years and he won the world title for the second time. And ever since then we've been great friends, and he's now become six times a snooker world champion and I caught up with him and recorded another podcast with him it was truly fascinating when you hear the development of a human being, you know, that's what I'm all about I'm all about helping people go from where they are to where they want to be, whether they are a world champion or just an everyday person just trying to do the very best that they, they can be. So get ready for an inspirational interview between myself and Mr Ronnie O'Sullivan, it's awesome. And I'll see you with the rocket, Ronnie O'Sullivan after the thing Jean. The big question is how does some people in the world today creating the results they want with their health, wealth and happiness. What exactly are these people doing this podcast will give you the answers and inspire you to live the life that you want. Today,

Ronnie thank you so much for giving me your time. Again, it's quite strange really, because we're back in this house. Sure mom's house, but it's 20 22,003 we recorded the first podcast just over there. We actually just sitting on the floor, and the world has changed in the last 17 years right

Ronnie O'Sullivan 2:04
yeah kind of pulling yeah probably more than last six months as in the previous six and a half have imagined in over here, you know, surely get drip drip fed change but just this has been one humongous change visitor. Yeah funny but we are still here.

Pete Cohen 2:17
We are still here, but obviously there's a few things that's happened to you. So, you're now six times snake a world champion so all those years ago you were did one at once. And before, when we were driving up there I listened to both of the podcasts that we did, and I was just so fascinating listening to many of the things that you said there stayed with me for a long time, and lots of other people. So, one of them was about the daily detox. Yeah, we were talking about detoxing years ago and you may listen I detox every day. When I sweat the steam rising off my head, and you still have the option.

Ronnie O'Sullivan 2:56
Yeah, absolutely. I've always been big into fitness health and fitness, you know, in that sort of way and, you know, you go to these spas and they want to put mud packs on there and they want to charge it up this and that and and it's all it's all great to treat yourself and and again but I always found that, you know, the detox come from inside out and you know if you can run them sweat and get in a fresh air, fresh air and I'm a big fan of nature as well so I believe you know running through the forest and getting all that oxygen to all the trees and the natural stuff you know and surely it sort of, it's got to be good for you and I always feel good for a member, you know, when I was constantly running, you know consistently for five or six years. I never had a cough or a cold for five or six years yeah because my body got used to being cold, hot weathers and maybe my system is so much stronger so you know I'm reconnected with that sort of health and fitness program again you know I didn't really run a property for six seven years because of injuries. But slowly got back into it and I'm appreciating more being outdoors and more. The detoxing I'm putting myself through that and I've ever had yeah because I didn't have it for about seven eight years.

Pete Cohen 4:08
So let's go back because I was always thinking today I'm 50 I met you probably 1819 years ago, and that is that's a third of my life and that's quite strange, just to think about how long I've known you for but how we met was, you are going through a pretty difficult time, and there was a lady that you knew contacted talkSPORT. And Talksport contacted me and then we met in the outside the Ritz in London, and they wouldn't let you in, because you weren't. I think you were wearing jeans, they went somewhere else then we connected. And then you came to see me or I lifted the Sussex, and you were coming for a couple of hours, and you stay for three days. And that's that was the start of just something I was really, you know, it was great I really enjoyed meet knowing getting to know you. And we did some work together and I know that you won three, I think you want three tournament. Back to back. Yeah, some of the other. Yeah. And, yeah, it was amazing just to see your, your journey we worked together for for a while and you've carried on doing what you do. But I'd love to know that this is the thing I wanted to talk about mastery so 18 years ago I asked you, I told you about this book that was written by Dr Malcolm Gladwell he talks about this 10,000 hours to be really good at anything. You've got to do 10,000 hours of practice, and you recommend he's done way more than 10,000 hours which is 121,250 days. How many hours of practice, do you think you've done in all of your years of, of being a professional snooker player.

Ronnie O'Sullivan 5:46
It's a hard question that if I've had a calculator probably be a lot easier but I'm assuming i'd average probably two hours every day because there's times where I don't pay for three four months. There's times I didn't pay for four year. And there's times I don't pay for weeks. Two weeks on end so there's a lot of times where I haven't played so far so average out there, you know, when I was a kid or pay six anywhere between six to 10 hours a day, sometimes 12 hours a day. I think that's where I learned to just get such good stamina. even now. Later on in my career as I'm older, obviously, the concentration level is not as good the hunger the desire is not like it was when I was younger, now that that natural appetite to play you know it's like an adrenaline thing you know so you just do 10 hours and people remember I was, you know, I loved every minute of it. So if you're loving what you do, you're never really looking at the clock, and I have been doing this for forever I just didn't want it to edit. So I'll probably sell on average probably about two three hours a day. So at times that were 365 times that by 30 years. Yeah, you'd get the get the number.

Pete Cohen 6:52
It's probably about 200 over 200,000 on who God knows a lot of hours and I don't even know my maths GCSE. But why is practiced you think so important because a lot of people have always said oh Ronnie are just really lucky remember when you came to the Gulf college I was working, and some kids said Ronnie you're just really lucky now because you're just really talented. And, you know, you've obviously got talent but how how important is it to work hard at something to get good at

Ronnie O'Sullivan 7:20
something in the beginning it's everything you know because you need to to hone the skill and you know you need to develop the skills you need to learn the game you need to learn. The, the science side of it in a way so it's known as a very mechanical sort of sport very repetitive. So, in a bit like golf in a way you know you just try and repeat that rhythm that swing. That kind of qq action if you like. And, you know, the near you from keep repeating that the more you ingrain them in habits, and then it becomes like an autopilot sort of thing so all their murder years or training to get you to that point mode becomes autopilot so you can do it without even thinking, but obviously when you're first starting out to learn something you have to work on all these things so you know I always believed that you know the 10,000 hour rule and I do believe that, you know, obviously it's put the time in but what if you put in 10,000 hours in of doing something, the wrong way. Yeah, we've reinforced wrong habits, in a way, you know and in some ways you probably won't improve as a player, you might actually get even worse and I've seen that happen with certain players over the years so it's important

Pete Cohen 8:32
for you to do that as well for a while.

Ronnie O'Sullivan 8:35
I mean III. Early in my career I had very good habits and very good sort of swings and very good correction and a lot of good stuff so for me it was just the game come very easy. Because of that, and then I kind of copied a few other players who I fought at the time were better than me, but they were better than me but there was a lot older than me and I never took in their age compared to mine. And I was just in the development phase, but I just wanted to get good really quick so for our copy what they do, but actually it was a wrong thing for me to do because I kind of create some bad habits and then one for create the, the, you know, become another form and then while I was trying to create what pure one four, I was creating another form if that makes no it does so you know I've kind of had to go back to the drawing board, many times because of these little bad habits and you kind of have to, you know, try and either map one one at a time and you can't do more, but you can take one reinforce one good habit and that kind of gets you going again and so on. I'm not I'm never as good as I was when I was younger, in that respect but you know I just have to kind of because it's painful as well as MIT something MIT,

Pete Cohen 9:48
you have to aim for. I would imagine that it's painful when you have to dissect your game and think, Oh no, I've got to work at that in order to get better at like Tiger Woods, you know like reinventing his swing like that. But, yeah. So, tell me right now in your life, what's driving you

Ronnie O'Sullivan 10:05
what's driving me at the moment is. He's just, you know, opportunities outside of snooker really to be honest with you, you know, I've had a great life first new car love plants new car enjoy practice I enjoy it being on the road for certain amount of time so I always start the year say right I will be spending this amount of nights, away from home because I have to value you know that you know where's the value for me you know and the value is in. In, I love to. I love playing. But, you know, once I go over a certain point, I stopped enjoying plan because of, not because of the plan just if the traveling and the pressure and I'm just trying to kind of, you know, just been away from home.

Pete Cohen 10:46
So there's so many things goes to big things right but obviously we could. There's so many trophies. Right here, have you achieved everything that you've really want if you didn't win another major event tournament, would you would you be bothered.

Ronnie O'Sullivan 10:59
No, not at all because in snooker like I say, growing up I was happy to have one month, one Boto one or stage two. Now, I won the UK when I was 17 that was an amazing feeling but I never, I never fought for it you know I'm gonna go on to win what I would win you know so I was kind of happy with that and then you win a few more times then you kind of get a little bit greedy and different or maybe I should win some more and you start to, you know, look at the person above you, what are they do it and you want to strive and so that competitive drive me push me to try and become the best player occurred and, you know, at one stage I wasn't sure for the normal world title of HDR did, which was great. Massive monkey off my back, and allowed me to relax and then just kind of develop as a snooker player and see where I can take it from there and you know a lot more well titles have been, there's been a few gaps in between because you know I've gone missing for a few years, you know, that was mentally or physically with my game, who knows but you know but I've always managed to get back on track.

Pete Cohen 11:56
Because obviously I've got this picture here which was, this was in 2003 so what do you what do you remember about that well members just been

Ronnie O'Sullivan 12:03
backstage and,

you know, we hadn't known each other long then but we had a great yeah I love spending time with us. There's some great times and you know just to share that moment with us and be there because I know I'm actually, you know you value, you know, to getting the best out of yourself so a lot of the time I do a lot of distractions around me. And then we meet new users who are the only people, and I was like us right you know cuz Steve Peters said the same thing to me, you know like, Who are these people it's like I'm a bit of a people pleaser in a way so it's hard for me to say no to some somebody so you know I've a lot of people that I didn't really want there. And what I've learned over the years to kind of go my kindness and not have people around me as much.

Pete Cohen 12:49
Well you've said some so many great things before we started filming today. One of them is about living life on your terms, your rules. And, you know, I think everyone or not everyone but anyone who knows anything about snooker would say Ronnie. Come on, you've got to go for the seventh or the eighth really to become, you know, some people would say that that is the greatest thing go No one's ever done that before. But when I look at this and think, you know, that was great to see you, to win that title, especially after I knew what you've been through the year before. And the fact that I've said to you, Ronnie I don't think that you're an alcoholic. Do you remember, see I was naive. This is another thing I was naive to, because I just thought alcoholics were a certain type of person who would always free, but I want to learn from you, this and that, that world title that you lost in the first round you made one for seven. You want to bend up for that for four months. And you blame me for it, which is fine. But it doesn't mean you did what you did, but I understood and I actually learned a big lesson from that because you don't have an alcoholic isn't necessarily someone who drinks all the time you know you're the sort of person that could just smash something, and then stop. And he always been like that to think with your kind of behaviors that you could literally do something for a while and then smash it and then stop and then.

Ronnie O'Sullivan 14:11
Yeah, yeah. Not good you know and that's what I've done, and we've got just couldn't stop now so it was, it was really it was getting in the way of what what I should be doing you know so like every time the World Championship Come on, I look forward to the end of it because there was no. There was no tournament to get out for so you know I wish that tournament was over, so quick so I'll get to the quarter the same as if it wasn't going right through sweetly now about four months ago power in essence, good timing my friend so the drive to want to win that tournament, you know things weren't going well, quickly, kind of give up really you know subconsciously. So for me to not, you know, dabble in my addictions men that that that option was no longer there. You know that was no longer like party time after World Championships now follow us in the world championships he was the tire math world champions now spent getting ready for next season, so you know there was no desire to want to get beaten World Champion because my whole life was built around getting ready to win the World Championship so you know that you know yeah that was that was success where addiction was was not good for me because I used it as a snooker was I funded a lifestyle and I enjoyed it and I'd have fun on the tour, but really what in the back of my mind was is it really wise to just let my hair down and just break loose with a few my friends, which wasn't really the right thing but that's what addiction can do to you sometimes it can distort your thinking. In

Pete Cohen 15:39
fact, when I look at that picture for me it wasn't the wild type, that's always seeing you when that was great fun but what I remember about that was countless hours of fun, laughter, and just having fun. They know that that's what I remember about it, and they don't I think often people don't know the fun but they also don't know the heartache that must go on in terms of how hard it is to be the best when you're out there on show because most people don't live a lifestyle like that where they work at something and everyone can see what it is that they're doing you're putting yourself out there and you also said today that you also always struggled with trying to please everyone else so a big event, the biggest headache, the anxiety would come from. I've got to take care of everyone I've got to get everyone tickets and I can't imagine Roger Federer. I think maybe he does maybe he does have to deal with that side of things. Yeah,

Ronnie O'Sullivan 16:31
well you get someone else to deal with it but you know, they still in that comes your gun Oh, we forgot you know such and such, you know, model can we buy some more to. No, you can't. So then, yeah, you still have to make a decision in the day so like I said for this year's World Championships, that was taken out my hands there was no visitors no guess no crabs, no one cried in the stage door could get in and out of Sheffield and I've never felt so elected in my whole life so it just shows you that it wasn't the snowcone it wasn't all the other stuff. It was just sort of goes without the pits of the circus that surrounds you know certain torrents if you like so for me the Masters, that was the reason why I didn't plan the Masters because it's a huge circus there is a major event, and you know,

Pete Cohen 17:13
everyone wants a piece of

Ronnie O'Sullivan 17:14
you right onto a piece of me and there's a select bunch of players who the media want a piece off so we always get, you know, much more requests and I just decided that that was burning me out, more than, that was doing that was stopping me actually enjoy and plan for me it was just all about the plan side of it so I decided to not plan any time where I felt like snooker wasn't becoming a priority there the surface become the priority so for me a lot of the low key events and now probably I will play a lot one China events, because I know the traveling can be quite hard, but once I'm there. My times not used up in that way, you know, they lay just to pay your snooker and they are the biggest events as well and I do like China and playing out there so I'll probably boycott, I'd say probably, I won't play a lot even yeah surfaces around and there's a lot of time, so you'll talk to me yes yeah I have to accept circus there, because I really love your connects that one of the nights like a real good holiday for me. Yeah. But London is the Masters is like a no no for me really if I never played in that again I wouldn't be disappointed. World Championships, a bit like that again, you know unless and this code is still lingering around next year quite look forward to, to that to the peace and quiet chef we got it yeah

Pete Cohen 18:32
so living life on your terms, and your toes, live Why is that important, because I'm a lot happier

Ronnie O'Sullivan 18:37
when I do what I want to do and you know not to set my own rules and you know see my is clear it's important that when you do that to be clear with people, you know, because if you're setting your own morals and people don't like your roles, but you don't explain to them why you need these rules, then you know you can start to maybe Ansel a lot of people when picking this thing up like that. But when you know normally when you explain to someone you're pretty straight with them, they kind of get it, you know, and then you know and it's nice to, to just set your boundaries a lot better. I think that's come with age and experience and wisdom. Wisdom yeah and you know I know everybody settles down you know that you know if they know what you're prepared to put up with, not to put up with, then it's up to them to maybe work around you, and it's always I always think there's a compromise but if it's the other side is not prepared to compromise, and they're not the type of people that I really want to be,

Pete Cohen 19:28
I just think it's I think it's just so beautiful I didn't know exactly what we were going to talk about today I just really wanted to have the opportunity to speak to you again, and I really appreciate you giving me your time. But there was a little kid that sent you a message before. Yeah, and you've. Why is that important for you to to inspire people in a way like that no one will ever know that you've touched the heart of that child by just sending him a message and him sending you a message. Why is that so important to

Ronnie O'Sullivan 19:59
you because I just want to surround him I just got a sense of just, just a joyful, happy, sort of, genuinely just a big smile on his face and, you know, I just, I just kind of just got taken environment away and his parents were lovely you know knew they didn't want anything from me you know they they were just there to watch a snooker and, you know, and I was like, you know, great to see you meet you blah blah blah and I said look come to the party afterwards. You come with his mom and dad and we had a fantastic time and he had a great time we met with my family and friends and, you know, it's just a great night and, you know, swap numbers and they're obviously up, they, they work in a part of the country where I like to go and visit as well so there's a connection and he likes telling jokes and he's an 11 and he sends me loads of little funny jokes and stuff like that and every time I see his name when these things come up on on WhatsApp, I just laugh and I just smile you know it just makes me happy. So I just, I don't question that I go you know what that

Pete Cohen 21:02
what you actually said, which was beautiful, you actually said that you get as much pleasure, that probably does. Yeah, and I think when we look at mental health, it looks like a lot of people struggle with mental health but they're not living life on their terms and you are extremely famous but you don't choose to play the game that everyone seems to be playing, where you're kind of selling your soul. And then you don't really ever have yourself. And why do you think that's so important for you to do that

Ronnie O'Sullivan 21:35
is you know we'll have to play the game to a certain extent, you know, it's how much you're prepared to play that game and for me the value, so much more value in having some privacy, you know not. I'm, you know, I don't want to be put myself on this pedestal, to where you can get knocked down if you like. So in a way, I just think I'd rather stick to my rules and kind of live my life on my own terms. Keep under the radar if you like. And, you know, because obviously with that fame and notoriety and all that stuff you know you have to be held accountable sometimes for that stuff and I don't really want to be held accountable for for some stuff you know it's all fallible human beings. We all make mistakes, and you know I I just tried to just live my life as honestly and I hopefully through how I play my game, and how I compete and how to come across on TV. That's the product you know people don't have to see my life on Instagram or on Twitter. Yeah, me know they see me clown TV they see me if enough they see me at 44 then you know we all judge a book by its cover whether we like to know we all have like an instant perception of someone, but 44. You can tell I take care of myself a lot well, and I'm still competing so when I'm not in the TV you know that I'm doing a lot of things that are good for me, practicing I'm eating well and healthy and you know my whole life is quite stable. So, that's my reflection to the world in a way.

Pete Cohen 23:03
Yeah, so let's just talk about that thing dr because I was talking I sent you something yesterday but, and then I mentioned to you today that there is a gene to gene which has been identified and driven people, and whether you've got those genes or not. You are a fairly driven person right. Yeah. And the author of this book driven talks about if you don't manage that drive. Yeah. It's like putting a Formula One racing car, putting it like on a street outside here is gonna cause some havoc. Yeah, so if you weren't driven if you didn't, where you weren't disciplined with your drive. Where do you think you'd be now.

Ronnie O'Sullivan 23:43
And it's very very good question because, like, the obvious thing is that I find something to put it in, but I think my dryer for snoopers kinda it's his limit is his ceiling and so I'm bumping my head on the ceiling a lot of time thinking well where do I go from here. So there's kind of some frustrations within that because i think you know like I need to, I need to fill out this. There's this, there's this some way to go with it. There's some growth, and I do feel like I've kind of plowed out with snooker for quite a while so for me the drive is about people you know surrounding yourself with fantastic people now, you know, and I feel like in the sneaker world are kind of about how dumb they are in many ways you know it's sort of a bit of a waste. I'm a bit of a waste there, you know like, there's a lot of players striving to get where I am, but I'm not striving to get with anyone elses if they don't you know so for me, the dryer is in seeing what people are doing and thinking that's where I want to be and there's a lot more people outside of snooker that in fact there's no one in snooker that I want to be, but there's a lot of people outside snooker that I strive to be so I've kind of just started last year looking into different projects and different things that I can get involved in. And that's what's inspiring me you know that's that's what keeps me getting out of bed in the morning and keep, you know, loving life if you like so.

Pete Cohen 25:03
So let's talk about personal development right because you've always been into personal development, what how did you first get into it. And what was your first. What was the first book or the first time he thought, I like this development stuff.

Ronnie O'Sullivan 25:16
I think the first time they introduced you mentioned him and the Robbins, and yeah. And then I think my dad should read a book called The road less traveled by mine pet, I can't get into too heavy and deep for me at the time could make sense it probably could now. Yeah dabbled a bit into it and you know the the rock and stuff was pretty good listen to the CDs and I've kind of liked it. But you couldn't maintain it, you know yeah for me it was I work for a week to three weeks. Just could never really kind of keep on that energy level in our cars auto, as well, a cartel is another one, you know, great, you know, and I think what it is is what hopefully is like meeting new Steve peers, it's just become love kind of works out my own weird way of kind of getting, you know, live in life you know so for me it's a bit of overthink.

Pete Cohen 26:08
So you found the answers in yourself. You've obviously listen to other people and got advice from other people actually Tony Robbins, one of the things I love when he talks about the six needs, human need so talks about people need certainty uncertainty they need growth, and they know sorry. Uncertainty certainty connection and significance, there, there are six, the fifth, five and six are growth and contribution. But what he says is most people get those first four met in a way that isn't good for them, you know through habits or addictions. And that's some of the hard stuff that some of us have to work through, so that we can end up just growing and contributing which is seems like that's really what you're obsessed with you just want to keep growing and keep contributing.

Ronnie O'Sullivan 26:52
I have a zero tolerance for something that doesn't feel right, you know, because it's time I look at things now just think what what else is there you know for me I don't, I don't need to work, I don't need to do anything. And I've got, I've got a nice life comfortable life. So for me, it's become more of that time and that's how I value times that's why I don't like to be away from home too long because what I enjoy that time I still need time to do the other stuff so you know I kind of very aware of, not wasting my time if you like you know so you know, I like to keep fit I like to do that sort of stuff but then there's the other areas where I have to find time to manage different projects that I'm involved in and you know there's no point being involved in these projects unless I'm going to give it my time, because the growth comes in, you know, meeting new people and doing different things and getting inspired and I always say, you know, you need a reason to get out of bed in the morning and.

Pete Cohen 27:48
And so, anyways, you're really just because you just want to grow you still want to do things make things happen

Ronnie O'Sullivan 27:53
yeah absolutely you know because it's always thing, you know it's like this is a bit of a legacy thing as well you know like. Now what could legacy Can I leave plan Snoopy now it's just a load of medals and a load of YouTube videos and other people but for me, I want to create something so as that's still there is still functioning, and it can it can help people with their lives and as with providing jobs, providing, you know, you know, whether it was it was in a charity or whether it's involved in a business, you're changing people's lives or giving people a chance to work and develop themselves as well so it's no good became a realized very quickly just all about me. You know what I was in it to serve very single vision single minded sort of thing, but to thrive in life and you need to kind of develop a team of people around you to share that with and, and that that passion and joy becomes like a more like a team effort so for me it's about two people as well now

Pete Cohen 28:53
for just a couple more things. We just finished this. Tell me what why do you think it's so important to surround yourself with good people,

Ronnie O'Sullivan 29:00
because I just think that, you know, you're always learning you know I always think like if I had a young kid. I wanted him to be a snooker player. If I could get him to hang around with Stephen Hendry or Steve Davis or Ronnie O'Sullivan or john Higgins, to not just see you know what he's got a great chance to get where it needs to get because you know he's obviously around the Masters, that have played the game. And I'm not just, I just adopt that philosophy, no matter where you get into so you know there's a big world wide world, there's loads of opportunities. You just have to seek him out. Once you seek starts to seek him out, little things start to be put in place and they're not coincidences because unless you seek them out and opportunities don't present themselves so for me there's been loads of different opportunities and things that have presented themselves because of the groundwork I've put in and I kind of go okay I get it, you know. So, it's about being proactive, in a way, but you know, but being proactive due to things that you're excited about you know appear, you know, you know, might not always lead to what you thought he was going to do but you end up doing something else did you go wow I didn't even know that was out there, but because I followed that that the other thing kind of presented itself so it's having an open mind and open mind but just a proactive sort of mind. So,

Pete Cohen 30:16
you know, with the World Championships, where you were talking, he said to us You don't look at social media and stuff but you've often say things which definitely prick people's ears up and make people I think you've got a really refreshing way of saying a lot of things and one of the things you were saying about the youngsters coming through. Yeah. What did you mean by that was it, partly to do with the fact that you know that people aren't working really hard or their game or they're not taking it seriously. What was it that you were trying to say.

Ronnie O'Sullivan 30:44
And some ways you know I was hoping it would inspire some of the younger chumps or

Pete Cohen 30:51
just be

Ronnie O'Sullivan 30:53
inspired or young since again and what I'm going to work a bit harder and try and do so I

Pete Cohen 30:57
didn't think I didn't think that they you might have said it for that reason and yeah

Ronnie O'Sullivan 31:01
because obviously you not care about the game. Sometimes you can't get through to them. And sometimes the best way to get through to someone is to give a little bit but not because that's what worked for me when I was younger whenever someone said I couldn't do something. He inspired me to do it. And I just think winners think like that you know they think, you know, if you say something you can't do. Why and, and I'm going to show them and want to say it, but it makes them work harder that makes them challenge themselves if you like so. Either way, it's just uh yeah it's just sort of like you know I get, you get a lot of flowers that come on the circuit. And, you know, they everyone goes anyone can be anyone and I go yeah anyone can beat anyone on a given day base, so it's not okay beating me on a Monday, you got beat me tuesday wednesday Sunday, Monday, Monday or Tuesday when you can't just you know any anyone can be anyone out there, I'll give you know that's that's that's a given. But for me it's not it's not bad and good days or bad and good months could use a good decade, you know, if you want to be a true. I call it a true sportsman you know because otherwise why you didn't you know you're just you're just a pain in the ass every now and again you you you upset the applecart was one of the, one of the things he used to say about he's got no asshole, but we used to watch a lot of sports together.

Pete Cohen 32:18
And what what did you What What did you mean by that.

Ronnie O'Sullivan 32:21
Well I think a lot of people are just afraid of

afraid of losing you know listen, fear, fear of losing can be a driving force but it shouldn't dictate the way you play the game you know and a lot of it's all in the shop shop selection that tells you a lot about a player, you know, I could say new, they come into the match nothing to lose. they go for one up to five and then all of a sudden, they change their game they kind of start to twitch a little bit and, you know, against most players that's it's okay, like it's like a toddler like a Jordan or Tiger Woods, they're going to notice that immediately and gain confidence so to be a true champion you can't like I said you know you have to you have to know the science the game the mechanics the game get a good head and it's nice but

Pete Cohen 33:06
that's where you've looked all over again, you know people say success is what you're doing when no one else is looking and again, people just don't really know the amount not just now hours of practice but also just the questioning of what's that mean how's that working, trying to under understand that

Ronnie O'Sullivan 33:22
all this is at the end of the day if you're running the business you want to know your Business Insider your know your competitors, you wanna know your market you want to know what you're up again Yeah,

Pete Cohen 33:29
I've seen review is like what I would call a magnificent


Ronnie O'Sullivan 33:33
You were just obsessed. I think you need this. Yeah, no, I love him God, I've got this obsession I'm not sure you need that obsession if you haven't got that obsession. Forget it. Go, don't do it. If you want to be successful, don't do it because to be the best or what are you have a chance to compete with the best you, there has to become an obsession of some people need to put eight hours a day. Some people need to put two hours a day in but on the other six hours they still need to be the same thing to push him to go. You know, so we all have weaknesses and strengths, you know, and sometimes, you know, over practicing can dilute, you know, for me, I may have to two hours I'm gonna have an hour run, it's better than plan to do six hours here because you know it's not it's not right for me but I'm still obsessed that run is still a part of an obsession for me. So when I put my suit on a match day, I feel fit I feel fresher fill up ticked every box here, and if others are those if I win, you know, probably it's down because of all the different types of agree, I'm not left no stone unturned.

Pete Cohen 34:31
So, did you watch the Netflix last last dance with Jordan.

Ronnie O'Sullivan 34:35
Yeah it is yeah you got me into Jordan.

I must admit, a lot of what, when you hear Jordan talk a lot of way used to psych yourself up for matches, I've done all my life and I didn't realize it until I watch that we're doing and he would pick a fight. He would pick something to, to sort of make you self up you know so might criticize an opponent, he might quit, you might have an argument with his coach, but yet that argument with his coach was so he could prove to his coach that he never leave me at the start and line up, iron, you know, yeah you know so it's kind of like, there's always something you need to kind of get himself going you needed a reason to prove your position or, or to, you know, and I've always done that, I'm not knowingly, but I've always thrived on thinking why it's on me. And then need to deliver. If I don't deliver. I'm gonna fall flat on my face for your love for you. My save face isn't going to happen so I'd find something from somewhere and offers to Wow It was only there but I come through it, you end up having the last laugh

Pete Cohen 35:35
but maybe the last hours, you should do a series which is called the last

Ronnie O'Sullivan 35:39
laugh. Definitely, kind of like it's not a laugh it's more of like you know what that was what I needed to to push myself above and beyond where you know you know so you set you set yourself a target. And you might just reach under it so for me to do something like that it's like you're setting yourself up for fall.

Pete Cohen 35:59
So the third thing you also know that if you're going to set your sights on something you probably know how much work is really involved in that it sounds like you're getting to a point where you think, I don't really know how much I want to do that because it is hard work. Absolutely, how long you've been doing it like, Yeah, all your life.

Ronnie O'Sullivan 36:16
Yeah, listen there's there's, there's a few tour listeners, it is a 12 month year, and I just look at, you know, I'm in a very good place with everything, and I enjoy what I'm doing. And I just think, I'll tick over and then there'll be a little sweat spelling you okay no I just up the practice up whatever. I'll get a win, you know Mike we want to tournament three times a year. I don't need to read 678 talks here. I'm not prepared to put that effort and desire in, but are prepared to get a call or send me a call. As a final, all of a sudden, I like to practice, and then I might win what two or three events that do for me.

Pete Cohen 36:49
So I think other people would say that they work right but they don't know what's involved. They don't know what's involved, the hard work that's involved so when you watch the last dance, what did you see in Jordan, that you seen yourself from that that thing of I need something to kind of, I need something to kind of get me going, what what else what else would you

Ronnie O'Sullivan 37:11
just see he was he was just a leader, wasn't he just sort of like, you know, he kind of. He was like a marathoner in a way you know like you know he got his team up for it you know and like without him now. Those okay and there was still a force to be reckoned with. But when it came to winning that final few games they didn't have Jordan minutes to start Pipi clipping needed longer to Jordan their God when needed Jordan net Rodman want to behave when that turned up. If it wasn't for Jordan, you know what I'm kind of hold on a minute here you go and get in from Vegas you need to send someone there yeah and are kind of a little bit like that so you know, you start the job got to be done. You know, we've got to do it Give give give Rockman is two free days you know and once again part enjoy himself must be a guy can't do that he signed a contract now you gotta, you got to know your people, you got to know what's right you want to happy. Want a happy team, you know, I mean, and I believe that if you give cut someone a bit of slack, then that person will give you 120% and that's what you've got through Jordan I think with that overall sense of what each player needed to make that team a great team and, but without Jordan, it was never going to be the team, it was. Is that something now you maybe you want your life to be have a team they had to do something where everyone's absolutely yeah and I might not be the Jordan, I might be in London or Pippin you know I'm happy to be led and have someone go you know what runs steamy there and, and also because you're in the slipstream you know if someone's super successful but you're, you're aligning yourself with them, then you're going to be successful too, you know, we all have our own roles to play you know and and I'm happy to play that role and I am a bit of a team player you know yeah to be a team player if you want to be successful, even with, you know better work with people and you know you know not everyone's going to want to work for me if I just want to do it my way so it's about being open minded enough to learn, you know, a better way in a way and that's why I've worked with you, Steve P is and you know I'm and I continue to work with these people because you know it's about that pursuit of excellence and where does it end but I don't think it ever really I love that is always evolving I think the whole plants evolving and we're all you know we've got an opportunity to be better than the people that went before us.

Pete Cohen
So lastly when we talk about the monkey, the chimp paradox which is obviously that fits in with Dr. Steven Peters. I refer to it as a duck but, I mean, we've all got that voice in our head. How have you learned to change that narrative the part of you that can run you down and beat you up and,

Ronnie O'Sullivan
I mean, a lot of it's observation. Sometimes I've observed myself and I kind of look and I think, you know actually I've got quite a few assets you know there's it's not all doom and gloom and it's that. I appreciate more what I bring to the table now, rather than what I fought I didn't bring to the table now I've always compared myself What could be better could be isn't it could okay. But really it was just about you know just sort of being a little bit less harsh on myself and. And sometimes you know not not trying to sort something out immediately just kind of focus on the job at hand. Don't let that voice interfere you're not doing this right you're not doing that right you could do you know don't forget that to play the game play the balls. you know, you got to do a compete. Now these eight frames you just got to compete and compete and compete all the years of practice and thinking like I said that stops, you need to go into autopilot state when it's when it's game time before and after even all the thinking you like, you know, because that's the time to do it when you're out there, there's no, there's no time for that it's like you know we're here, we're Gladiator we're ready to fight we're ready to do battle. And, and the only way to be successful in them pressurize moments is to try and blank everything out and just and just be bang in the present and take one board at a time, and then you get into that combat zone where, you know, you become unplayable sometimes Yeah.

Ronnie O'Sullivan
See now it's about that pursuit of excellence and where does it end but I don't think it ever really I love that it's just it's always evolving nothing. The whole plants evolving and we're all you know we've got an opportunity to be better than the people that went before us. So lastly when we talk about the monkey, the chimp paradox which is obviously the big thing with Dr. Steven Peters. I refer to it as a duck but, I mean, we've all got that voice. You know I had that.

Pete Cohen
How have you learned to change that narrative the part of you that can run you down and beat you up and, yeah, yeah, I mean, I mean, a lot of it's observation, you know, sometimes I've observed myself and I kind of look, I think, you know, actually, I've got quite a few assets you know there's it's not all doom and gloom and it's thought. As I appreciate more what I bring to the table now, rather than what I thought I didn't bring to the table now as always compare myself What could be better could be worse than we could okay.

Ronnie O'Sullivan
But really it was just about you know just sort of being a little bit less harsh on myself and. And sometimes, you know, not not trying to sort something out immediately just kind of focus on the job in hand. Don't let that voice interfere you're not doing this right you're not doing that right you could do you know don't forget that to play the game play the balls. You know you're able to do a compete. Now these eight frames you just got to compete and compete and compete all the years of practice and thinking last so that starts, you need to go into autopilot, their state when it's when it's game time before and after you don't want to think in your life, you know, because that's the time to do it when you're out there, there's no there's no time for that it's like you know we're here, we're Gladiator we're ready to fight we're ready to do battle. And, and the only way to be successful in them pressurized moments is to try and blank everything and just, just be bang in the present and take one board at a time, and then you get into that kind of zone where, you know, you become unplayable sometimes Yeah.

Pete Cohen
So lastly what would you want. I'm sure people are likely to this question before but I'd love to know what do you want the legacy of your life to be, and how do you want to be remembered. What do you want to leave, what do you want to leave behind.

Ronnie O'Sullivan
My snooker career has been fantastic and I love the sound and the joy that I think I've bought a lot of people's lives, you know, I've met a lot of fantastic people and got two great friends. I've traveled th world and played in front of hundreds of thousands of fans and. And I know that have gone away and, you know, they love it you know and you touch people's lives. You know, it's the peak the reaction I get from people who say, you know, it's quite hard to take some time because you think like you know they think so much of you and appreciate as opposed to, How do I repay that. Now how do I look so, yeah, enthusiastic towards them as they do towards me, you know, you can't because I don't know these people but you know I just think, you know, maybe I've done, I've done a good job but a lot of happiness to people. And there's a second phase your life, where as I say, I don't just want to sit still and be a commentator or a pundit just just on Snoke all my life. So it's about creating something whether that's a charity whether that's a business. But yeah, I'm just excited by you know getting involved in that sort of different things now you know and be more of a team player. All my life I've been a senior sportsman but I think a team player, and that legacy to leave behind something that couldn't you whether that's a charity or business that carries on long after I've sort of fifth my days would be great you know and you know just, you know, a lot of these initiatives that people do only look at the Jamie Oliver thing where we took 15 kids off the street and train them up to be shifts, you know just simple things like that. I think that they can be quite rewarding and just changing people's lives, and giving people giving people a chance you know caring for people,

Pete Cohen
I think, you know, I see so many people when they finish competing, they do go into a big depression because they don't know what else to do. I think Jonathan Edwards is a classic example of that you spend all your life doing the hop skip and a jump yeah and and for you you you're already doing other things and there's so much more that you want to do. I think I want to say to you is that I've actually had some of my greatest memories in my life is with you know just these few fleeting little things that might not mean very much to anyone, but just. And it just reminds me of how important it is and you really do inspire me. You inspire me like you wouldn't believe. Just to. Yeah, you do. And it's also a dream because I always loved, looking at people who are great at what they did I was always obsessed by that. So, I remember watching Steve Davis I remember that great snicker match where he played Dennis Taylor you know the Yeah, 99 to 95, and then watching Henry I wasn't really interested in snooker at all. And then you came on the scene I was watching, just watch it all the time. And then I was thinking, I must have thought I would be great to meet you. The greatest and then obviously to have met me and spent time to do and just been a friend to you and to see, but the greatest thing isn't the medals, you know, and the trophies it's not, it's, it's who you've become. No, it's not the end isn't here there's there's, it's all going on when I think what I get the most from you is that desire just to want to get better to keep getting better.

Ronnie O'Sullivan
Yeah, you know, absolutely. Why not, well I'm gonna write your next book if you Stan's doing that backwards, you know i think that you know and you know it's just, if you're if you're not looking to go forwards and you've got no chance of meeting great people you know and I just think I'm always inspired by people. They can what can be achieved and there shouldn't be no limitations on you look at Kip shogi you know I love that you know that his wife while we put limits on ourselves as human beings. And to me, that's him living by his own rules you know but sub two out, no one would would ever believe it's possible but until sunlight him that believed it. Anything's possible you just have to sometimes look outside the little fishbowl that you can sometimes get in and get into the ocean, because it's a big ocean.

Pete Cohen
Well, I really appreciate you know your time today it's just so strange being we didn't plan to be in this room, of course,

Ronnie O'Sullivan 6:34
and I think Trilogy

Pete Cohen 6:37
Yeah, thank you so much and I hope that people have enjoyed this, feel free to, to share it, because I just think people will listen to this and it will really walk it people a different perspective of possibility. And that's what we change right we change when, when we look at things differently, not when someone tells us what to do so. Yeah, thank you so much for this awesome, man.



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